When do you throw in the towel?

[jalfredprufrock]

Originally posted by Natan Zada
Oh man you asked for it. I love giving advice:D

I LOVE that you said you don't care about being a rock star. You just want to make a decent living at music. This is an EXCELLENT starting point. Your goal is totally achieveable. Being a rock star requires luck that is beyond your control. It's kind of like playing the lottery. But becoming a professional musician can be accomplished with blood sweat and tears. These three things (blood sweat and tears) are totally within your control. Luck is NOT required.

#1 - STOP taking advice from people who are not successful in the arts. ONLY listen to people who have achieved similar goals that you want to achieve. Most people are failures at life and they want to make you a failure too. They will tell you that you should have a "back up plan" just in case you don't make it. {censored} those people. Don't listen to a word they say.

#2 - DO NOT have a "back up plan." If you're going to make it in a competitive industry then you must believe that you are going to be successful or die trying. SUCCEED OR DIE TRYING. This is true for all occupations and not just music & the arts. Wealthy corporate businessmen will tell you the exact same thing. Believe you are going to SUCCEED OR DIE TRYING. Do not have a "back up plan."

#3 - Go where the action is. IF you're a metal musician and the best metal guys are in Cleveland. Then move to freakin' Cleveland. IF you're a country musician and the best artists are in Nashville. Then move to freakin' Nashville. DO NOT make the mistake of thinking you will get discovered in your hometown scene that doesn't exist. GO where the action is. GO be around people with similar interests. GO where there is the most competition. You must be around similar people that will help you achieve your goals.

#4 - Focus on your strengths. All of the best and most famous guitar players are extremely focused musicians. Example, Dimebag Darrel played an ML with a floyd into Randall Stacks. He had the same basic metal sound and style of playing from the time he was a young boy to the time he died in his late thirties. He never tried to be a "jack of all trades' guitar player. He didn't try to be the best jazz, blues or classical player. HE just played metal and he took it to the extreme. He FOCUSED on metal and did it better than most of his peers. That single minded focus is required to be successful in music. Diverse musical taste is fine. It's great to love all forms of music. But to succeed on your own as a career requires extreme focus on what you are best at. My advice, find out what you are best at and focus. FOCUS FOCUS FOCUS

#5 - INVEST in yourself. A lot of musicians are hanging around waiting to be discovered. They are waiting for a record company to invest in them. Do not wait. Invest in yourself. Treat your music like its a business. Buy the best equipment. Work an extra job if you have to but invest in your own gear. Pay for your own recording time. Whatever. Just DO IT YOURSELF. Do not wait

#6 - Look at your bandmates as business partners. Would you want a business partner that spends his time getting drunk or getting stoned? Would he be a business partner that maintains a profitable business or would he destroy a business? Look at your bandmates the same way. Are they as serious as you? If not, ditch 'em. Don't waste your time on guys that aren't 100% serious. Also, don't get too hung up on physical appearance. Image can be bought. Image is the easiest thing to fix. It's the inside that counts. Look for bandmates that have the right qualities on the inside. Then if they don't have a good image take them to the mall and to a hair salon.

Ok now I'm sick of blabbing Hope that helps.

One last thing, your twenties are your time to experiment in life. Don't worry too much. Even if you totally were to fail its not a big deal. You can spend your 30s changing your life all over again. There is no reason why you can't go to college to be an accountant at age 30. Hey then you'll be the old guy at school banging all the young chicks. Spend your 20s doing something that is your passion. Pursue your dreams. That's what's so wonderful about being young [/quote

Best answer so far.

[inscho]

Originally posted by Natan Zada Oh man you asked for it. I love giving advice:D I LOVE that you said you don't care about being a rock star. You just want to make a decent living at music. This is an EXCELLENT starting point. Your goal is totally achieveable. Being a rock star requires luck that is beyond your control. It's kind of like playing the lottery. But becoming a professional musician can be accomplished with blood sweat and tears. These three things (blood sweat and tears) are totally within your control. Luck is NOT required. #1 - STOP taking advice from people who are not successful in the arts. ONLY listen to people who have achieved similar goals that you want to achieve. Most people are failures at life and they want to make you a failure too. They will tell you that you should have a "back up plan" just in case you don't make it. {censored} those people. Don't listen to a word they say. #2 - DO NOT have a "back up plan." If you're going to make it in a competitive industry then you must believe that you are going to be successful or die trying. SUCCEED OR DIE TRYING. This is true for all occupations and not just music & the arts. Wealthy corporate businessmen will tell you the exact same thing. Believe you are going to SUCCEED OR DIE TRYING. Do not have a "back up plan." #3 - Go where the action is. IF you're a metal musician and the best metal guys are in Cleveland. Then move to freakin' Cleveland. IF you're a country musician and the best artists are in Nashville. Then move to freakin' Nashville. DO NOT make the mistake of thinking you will get discovered in your hometown scene that doesn't exist. GO where the action is. GO be around people with similar interests. GO where there is the most competition. You must be around similar people that will help you achieve your goals. #4 - Focus on your strengths. All of the best and most famous guitar players are extremely focused musicians. Example, Dimebag Darrel played an ML with a floyd into Randall Stacks. He had the same basic metal sound and style of playing from the time he was a young boy to the time he died in his late thirties. He never tried to be a "jack of all trades' guitar player. He didn't try to be the best jazz, blues or classical player. HE just played metal and he took it to the extreme. He FOCUSED on metal and did it better than most of his peers. That single minded focus is required to be successful in music. Diverse musical taste is fine. It's great to love all forms of music. But to succeed on your own as a career requires extreme focus on what you are best at. My advice, find out what you are best at and focus. FOCUS FOCUS FOCUS #5 - INVEST in yourself. A lot of musicians are hanging around waiting to be discovered. They are waiting for a record company to invest in them. Do not wait. Invest in yourself. Treat your music like its a business. Buy the best equipment. Work an extra job if you have to but invest in your own gear. Pay for your own recording time. Whatever. Just DO IT YOURSELF. Do not wait #6 - Look at your bandmates as business partners. Would you want a business partner that spends his time getting drunk or getting stoned? Would he be a business partner that maintains a profitable business or would he destroy a business? Look at your bandmates the same way. Are they as serious as you? If not, ditch 'em. Don't waste your time on guys that aren't 100% serious. Also, don't get too hung up on physical appearance. Image can be bought. Image is the easiest thing to fix. It's the inside that counts. Look for bandmates that have the right qualities on the inside. Then if they don't have a good image take them to the mall and to a hair salon. Ok now I'm sick of blabbing Hope that helps. One last thing, your twenties are your time to experiment in life. Don't worry too much. Even if you totally were to fail its not a big deal. You can spend your 30s changing your life all over again. There is no reason why you can't go to college to be an accountant at age 30. Hey then you'll be the old guy at school banging all the young chicks. Spend your 20s doing something that is your passion. Pursue your dreams. That's what's so wonderful about being young

I really appreciate your response.

[sonic_tooth]

Originally posted by NITEFLY182 See Im 21 and about to graduate. My problem is I cant find people talented enough to do what I want to do. Everyone in my band struggles to keep up when I write something complicated. I write a song and everyone says "thats awesome" and 4 weeks later they still cant play it. Im looking forward to graduating and trying to find a place where there are tons of people that can seriously rip and be dedicated like I am.

 

 

 

That place is everywhere and nowhere. Finding good musicians is difficult. Moving is not always the answer though.

[inscho]

I think I'm in a good area...its really easy to gain popularity here...memphis is also 2-3 hours from st louis, nashville, birmingham, little rock, etc....great for local touring.

the indie scene here is on the verge of blowing up too....I can feel it.

[threm]

Originally posted by Natan Zada #1 - STOP taking advice from people who are not successful in the arts. ONLY listen to people who have achieved similar goals that you want to achieve. #2 - DO NOT have ....... #3 - Go where ....... #4 - Focus on ........ #5 - INVEST in ........ #6 - Look at .......

Are you sure you have Made It?

[Wilbo26]

Originally posted by sonic_tooth That place is everywhere and nowhere. Finding good musicians is difficult. Moving is not always the answer though.

+1

Austin is supposed to be a hotspot for live music and musicians...the only person I've met here in 6-7 years that I connect with musically was a classical pianist and he moved to California. Maybe I'm not trying very hard or have bad breath (or bad guitar skillz) but I think its hard to find musicians you mesh well with no matter where you are.

[scott_335]

I thought we were sharing experiences, not giving advice. Bastards.

[therhodeo]

Hey Inscho I'm 20 and in the same boat except I'm along ways from finishing school. I have a trade that can get me jobs so I'm ok in that area but I'm totally dissatisfied with the way things are going for me. My girlfriend thinks me wanting to play music is just immaturity. I've got so many people who think I should give it up. On the other hand my mom and my sisters keep telling me to do what I love and go for it. Not a fun situation.

[lostandfoundpdx]

even though that post disagrees with me, i can't agree more... i think due to my current situation ({censored} job and {censored} band) i'm a little bitter. but i really want to just play music and starve too. starving does suck though, i usually go into work and steal food when i get hungry, haha.


i need a new band and everything will fall into place, i strongly believe that. i think if i was happy with my music life, i would be happy with my whole life. thats a creative person's burden.

[inscho]

Originally posted by scott_335 I thought we were sharing experiences, not giving advice. Bastards.

both are welcome. although I would like some backgroud information on the people that are giving me advice

[Knob_Gobblin']

Originally posted by Natan Zada #1 - STOP taking advice from people who are not successful in the arts. ONLY listen to people who have achieved similar goals that you want to achieve. Most people are failures at life and they want to make you a failure too. They will tell you that you should have a "back up plan" just in case you don't make it. {censored} those people. Don't listen to a word they say.

Well then he had better hightail it out of here because I don't see many famous rockstars posting on HC all day.

#2 - DO NOT have a "back up plan." If you're going to make it in a competitive industry then you must believe that you are going to be successful or die trying. SUCCEED OR DIE TRYING. This is true for all occupations and not just music & the arts. Wealthy corporate businessmen will tell you the exact same thing. Believe you are going to SUCCEED OR DIE TRYING. Do not have a "back up plan."

This piece of advice will work out great when you find yourself broke on tour 500 miles from home with no gas money, no food, no place to stay and a raging case of herpes.

[Natan Zada]

Originally posted by threm Are you sure you have Made It?

Yes, I made it in the arts. Not in music, but in photography.

The elements that it takes to be successful in the music industry are the same as the elements it takes to be successful in the visual arts.

Now I'm older and don't have to work another day in my life. I have the time to sit around in my underwear and post on the internet.

I hope all the young guys in this forum enjoy great success in their futures. Financial success is important but doing what you love everyday is REAL success.

[GuyaGuy]

all i know is if anyone here is planning on playing emo, he should PLEASE go back to school and work toward his degree.

i thank you.
and jesus thanks you.

[inscho]

Originally posted by Knob_Gobblin' and a raging case of herpes.

[DaSkip]

Originally posted by jalfredprufrock Find a band. Buy a van. You don't have to be signed to Island to make a career making music... I'm 24 and have just made the decision to take the leap. I'm 15 hrs away from a BA and I'm dropping out.

 

 

If your parents have paid for your college education and you are a senior and dropping out. If you ask them for another dime in life....well I hope they say "get bent".

 

Do you have so many fans of your music around, that it demands you to tour. If not.

 

Finish the BA then rock till your heart is content.

 

If you have paid for your entire college education up to this point then disregard all the above statements and good luck.

[Wilbo26]

Originally posted by Natan Zada Yes, I made it in the arts. Not in music, but in photography. The elements that it takes to be successful in the music industry are the same as the elements it takes to be successful in the visual arts. Now I'm older and don't have to work another day in my life. I have the time to sit around in my underwear and post on the internet. I hope all the young guys in this forum enjoy great success in their futures. Financial success is important but doing what you love everyday is REAL success.

 

 

How did you get started?

[SwanSong68]

*Listens to Reeling In The Years by Steely Dan*

[inscho]

Originally posted by DaSkip If you have paid for your entire college education up to this point then disregard all the above statements and good luck.

 

 

I've paid my first two years out of my own pocket.

[sonic_tooth]

Originally posted by Wilbo26 +1 Austin is supposed to be a hotspot for live music and musicians...the only person I've met here in 6-7 years that I connect with musically was a classical pianist and he moved to California. Maybe I'm not trying very hard or have bad breath (or bad guitar skillz) but I think its hard to find musicians you mesh well with no matter where you are.

This is kind of funny to say, but a really good way of finding musicians to play with is by stealing them. Seriously.... If you dig a local band that you see regularly let them know that you like them and would be into working with them. Most bands and band members are wrought with conflict and are usually open to starting new projects, swapping, firing, hiring members. Sometimes things work out.

[Wilbo26]

Originally posted by sonic_tooth This is kind of funny to say, but a really good way of finding musicians to play with is by stealing them. Seriously.... If you dig a local band that you see regularly let them know that you like them and would be into working with them. Most bands and band members are wrought with conflict and are usually open to starting new projects, swapping, firing, hiring members. Sometimes things work out.

Yeah but how do you know you're not stealing the guy/girl thats causing all the conflict?

[sonic_tooth]

Originally posted by Knob_Gobblin' Well then he had better hightail it out of here because I don't see many famous rockstars posting on HC all day. This piece of advice will work out great when you find yourself broke on tour 500 miles from home with no gas money, no food, no place to stay and a raging case of herpes.

+1

[sonic_tooth]

the indie scene here is on the verge of blowing up too....I can feel it.


I have felt the same way about Denver for years.

[scott_335]

I think it depends really on what you want to do. If you want to pay the bills with music, then you better work on that 24/7. If you want to just enjoy it and play shows after work, then you need to go to school. I am doing the second option. It lets me pay my bills without killing myself, and beleive it or not, there are other things than music. I actually enjoy my dayjob at times.

[Natan Zada]

Originally posted by Wilbo26 How did you get started?

Dropped out of college at age 21 and moved to NYC. My friends and family thought I was completely nuts

[Klisk]

Originally posted by Devi Ever {censored} them. If they really love you, then they'll ultimately understand your reasons for doing what YOU love. If they can't, then they never really loved you in the first place, and do you really want people like that in your life? devi-

Natan Zada and Devi have the right idea.

I really don't think college is worth it at least until your 30's. It's a lot of wasted time. But I think it depends on your financial situation (can't afford it, knowing not to get into debt), and your outlook on life. Personally, I *tried* to goto college and couldn't even get a {censored}in' loan/aid. But then again, would you REALLY be happy working in a corporate office job for 8+ hours a day, applying yourself and straining yourself as a worker ant appeasing the queen?

That type of job would make me miserable, personally.

I'd rather craft my own business, or work in a small lazy shop where the only real qualification is being there. I hate having to, y'know, work... Unless it's for music. So it's my ethic to only work at music.

But if you only want to play music, apply yourself to music now. College inhibits creativity, and for many people can {censored} up your life's path.. Well, unless you're the type that "doesn't care unless I gots teh monies!" Unless you want to work as a "big wig", I don't think it's a good decision. It may be hard to believe, people, but some people DON'T want a formal 9-5 office type job.

Life is all about risk. People don't take risks anymore. *EVERYONE* has a BA. Everyone. That means that within the next 5-10 years, they will be worthless, and you won't be able to get a job with a BA because things have gotten even MORE competitive. You will need a masters + some sort of 'additional' schooling even after that. I don't think getting a BA is going to help you sustain a future, especially if you want the option of switching jobs instead of riding out the same one for 30-40 years. You'll be stuck in your cubicle. Because if you try to get a different job, you won't be qualified for it anymore, and you'll end up back in college....

Is that really any way to live?