Members Rockstar97 Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 I guess compared to other people my live rig is pretty sparse, but I'm still having issues with daisy-chaining my MIDI setup. I program all the patch changes/CC messages in each Sonar project file for the following: a GT-6 guitar processor, a TC Voiceworks harmonizer, Edirol Hypercanvas soft synth (basically just for bass tracks and the occasional other GM sound), NI Akoustik which I control via my bottom 88-key board, and either NI B4 or NI Pro-53 which I control via my upper-tier board. So, essentially, I have MIDI-thru to two hardware processors, two keyboards, and back in to my audio/MIDI interface, an Edirol UA-25. I'm having all sorts of issues getting the proper messages back and forth to all these units...so I guess my question is...when does chaining because too much? Would I be better to get a MIDI patchbay? I suppose I could sacrifice the NI soft synths if that clears some clutter, since both my keyboards are synths in their own right. Any suggestions, or places you know where I could find more help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khazul Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 It becomes too much when timing messages are getting to the end of the chain too late for anything to be in sync. As for messages going missing - depends upon how the midi thrus are implementented in each of the devices. Be very wary of soft thru/merge type functions - they all impose delays and an opportunity for a bad implementation to have undesirable side effects. Ideally a midi thru is little more than a single amp with effectively zero latency, so in theory you can daisy chain as much as you like. The problem you will have is that is fine for distributing a master clock, but near useless for getting MIDI back to you computer. A good midi patch bay is a much better alternative, but then depending upon how you use you rig, you can hit other limitations over being forced to use the typically slower merged routing functions to get clock + keyboard messages to rack modules (or anything else that needs to be remotely controled and synced). No solution is perfect and MIDI patchbays seem to be getting rarer as we are being forced to use computers like it or not complete with crappy timing and marginal reliability, hugely increased on stage complexity etc... For some reason MIDI patch bay manufacturers have collectively managed to completely screw up (by ommition) on MIDI beat clock and time code distribution, though MOTU may have the edge here - perhaps none of them ever thought that a complex keyboard+synth+fx rig might be used with them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Umbra Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 My rule is never daisy chain unless you have to for something that is expanded by external modules like PEK/PER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayehl Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 If i understand this you're using the upper tier and lower 88 as controllers, the guitar processor and harmonizer as outboard modules, and the NI B4, NI PRO, and Edirol are all in the computer? If thats the case, it sounds like you need two midi ports on your computer. upper tier midi out >> port 1 midi in >> port 1 midi out >> guitar proc lower 88 midi out >> port 2 midi in >> port 2 midi out >> harmonizer That should handle everything with no daisy chaining, no latency, no problems. Unless im missing something or forgetting something, which i tend to do. Set sonar's midi inputs to omni, and use each track's midi output to choose between the edirol, NI B4, NI PRO, or the port corresponding to the guitar proc or the harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayehl Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 i see the edirol ua25 only has one midi port, so are you going lower 88 midi out and upper tier midi out >>2x1 midi merger >> ua25 midi in >> ua 25 midi out >> midi 1x4 thru box >> guitar proc., harmon., lower 88, and upper tier midi ins or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rockstar97 Posted April 4, 2007 Author Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 Yeah that's basically it...I guess I didn't realize that another MIDI port would obviously solve the problem. I hate the UA-25 anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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