Members jah_vengeance Posted April 2, 2008 Members Share Posted April 2, 2008 hey - i posted this over at vintagesynth, but could really do with some help, hense the repost - sorry about that (i am a nice guy). i just recieved a roland sh09 after winning one on ebay and am stumped. it's come with a 2 pronged power cord, but no 3 pin adapter to convert it to a uk socket, so took it round to a UK electronics store if they had anything that will convert the cable, but on checking the power info sticker on the back, i was told i'll either need a external 8watt transformer or the thing modified to take the UK voltage - there no external 110/220v knob on the back - so am i basically screwed here? the fully info on the sticker is: AC100v 50Hz/60Hz 8w serial: 054951 i emailed the seller (who's in the UK) to ask why he either not included an adapter or if its a transformer i need why this wasn't mentioned, but no response yet - baws. any reassuring words or ideas on how much this is going to cost to modify? i don't want to but might try and send it back and demand a refund. thanks. and here's a photo of the back: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted April 2, 2008 Members Share Posted April 2, 2008 You can get 110V-220V adapters very cheaply... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/75W-240V-110V-STEP-DOWN-ADAPTER-PLUG-CONVERTER-240-110_W0QQitemZ330224729671QQihZ014QQcategoryZ96942QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jah_vengeance Posted April 2, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2008 You can get 110V-220V adapters very cheaply...http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/75W-240V-110V-STEP-DOWN-ADAPTER-PLUG-CONVERTER-240-110_W0QQitemZ330224729671QQihZ014QQcategoryZ96942QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem that looks increadible - would one of these definitly solve my problems - the tech guy/boss at maplin (a terrible shop) seemed to think the only solution was once of those massive yellow tubs you see at concerts for touring bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted April 2, 2008 Members Share Posted April 2, 2008 yes it would work... I had one of these with a 110V US Wavestation I once had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted April 2, 2008 Members Share Posted April 2, 2008 hehe.. guess you bought it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jah_vengeance Posted April 2, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2008 yeah i'm quick to act like that. kinda bugged though that something as 'simple' as that wasn't recommended to me in maplin - i know they suck, but that advice really did suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted April 2, 2008 Members Share Posted April 2, 2008 It can handle up to 75W and as the SH09 is 8W you should have no problems As long as you don't power a US hair dryer through it or something like that you should be ok... I also have a SH09 though haven't used it in some time... nice synth.. I did this track using just a SH09 and Boss SE70 FX unit (lot of ring modulation)... I fed the signal of the SH09 into the SE70 then back into the SH09 gain creating a feedback loop... just great! SH09 space jam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don Solaris Posted April 2, 2008 Members Share Posted April 2, 2008 that looks increadible - would one of these definitly solve my problems It would definitely 'solve' your SH-09 with permanent damage. This is a Japanese unit that expects 100 Volt. Do not even think of using adapter. It outputs 120V. Although this looks like a 'small' difference, it is not small at all! Here is why: Lets say the secondary of this transformer gives 18 VAC (typical) output when it is connected to Japanese 100V. The current then goes into the rectifier circuit that turns it into 25V DC. This is followed by capacitors and power regulators (that are lets say rated to 28V DC max). In Japan everything is ok. Then you come to Europe and connect it via step down converter to 120VHz. Now the voltage on the secondary of transformer will increase to 22VAC. But that is just beginning of the problem. Current now goes into rectifier, and at the output we got 31V DC. At that voltage you can say goodbye to your power regulators, transistors (if any), etc on the power supply board. Because instead of designed 25V you connected them to 31V!!! Not to mention potential damage for the whole synth! Solution: Find the max power of transformer and the rated voltage of the secondary (both are usually written on it), go to store and buy the same one, but with primary for 240V. Or find a company that makes transformers and tell them to make you one. If transformer is rated as 19.2, you can buy 18V, it will work ok. Use toroidal cores, they are superior to classic EI design. Here you can see the transformer that i installed into my Japanese CS-15. It is a standard 2x18V transformer available in every electronics store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted April 2, 2008 Members Share Posted April 2, 2008 Well that told me didn't it... I'm not gonna say it will definitely work though as you've put doubt into the equation.. however I can honestly say hand on heart I've used US and Japanese gear with these adapters tons of times in the past with no problems... Perhaps someone else could offer a perspective here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gilwe Posted April 2, 2008 Members Share Posted April 2, 2008 Solution: Find the max power of transformer and the rated voltage of the secondary (both are usually written on it), go to store and buy the same one, but with primary for 240V. Or find a company that makes transformers and tell them to make you one. If transformer is rated as 19.2, you can buy 18V, it will work ok. Use toroidal cores, they are superior to classic EI design. Jah, When replacing a transformer, you must not forget the amperage load it can take. Otherwise your instrument just won't operate correctly and will show all kind of problems. Why not having a tech doing it for you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted April 2, 2008 Members Share Posted April 2, 2008 ahh... too many potential problems here... Would a regular 220->100V adapter work... perhaps the dealer on ebay has these too? I see this one but its not in UK. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/30W-AC-power-voltage-converter-transformer-240V-100V_W0QQitemZ220217421566QQihZ012QQcategoryZ96942QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Prog Posted April 3, 2008 Members Share Posted April 3, 2008 Do not even think of using adapter. It outputs 120V @ 50 Hz.Where does it say that? It says 110V output from a 220V input. You make a lot of assumptions. Using the EXACT correct device is always good, but explaining your assumptions CLEARLY is always good, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don Solaris Posted April 3, 2008 Members Share Posted April 3, 2008 Where does it say that? It says 110V output from a 220V input. Dude, you still live in 60's or what? Voltage in UK is not 220V(!!). It is 230V with tolerances at 240V (and commonly found). Therefore old step down converters (110/220) that are connected to 240V will give 120V at the output. New ones are already designed/specified as 120/240V. Useful link: http://www.kropla.com/electric2.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Prog Posted April 3, 2008 Members Share Posted April 3, 2008 Dude, you still live in 60's or what? Voltage in UK is not 220V(!!). It is 230V with tolerances at 240V (and commonly found). Therefore old step down converters (110/220) that are connected to 240V will give 120V at the output. New ones are already designed/specified as 120/240V. :blah: Dude, ... That's what the transformer said. Was the transformer made in the 60s? Besides, it's still a 2:1 ratio, correct? Oh. and what is in the SH09 after the rectifier? You know what that is, correct? Your genius forgot to mention that. And, no assumptions. Be specific. You're becoming quite emotional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don Solaris Posted April 3, 2008 Members Share Posted April 3, 2008 Dude, ... That's what the transformer said. Was the transformer made in the 60s? Besides, it's still a 2:1 ratio, correct? What do you talk about ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mook Posted April 3, 2008 Members Share Posted April 3, 2008 FWIW when the UK changed from 240v to 230v no magic switch was thrown. Over the years as the electricity companies work on their transformers they may adjust their tappings, but their engineers I've spoken to never have. The voltage has just gone down with additional load! The frequency input will not matter on the synth. I've got a couple of 230(240) to 110 transformers here - one is a larger black standalone unit (that came with my SH5 (which was JPN 100v input btw) and one a small white 'plugtop' brick type (that came with my Juno 106). Both of these transformers are available from Maplins in the UK. I have since changed the internal transformer in the SH5 (it had no other input tappings) - I just got a 230-22v one - the voltage is not too critical depending on the spec of the voltage regulators. The transformer in the Juno had tappings for various input so I resoldered that onto the 240v input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted April 3, 2008 Members Share Posted April 3, 2008 Hi Mook are you saying that the 110V adapter stuff you bought worked on the 100V? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jah_vengeance Posted April 3, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 3, 2008 this is sounding bad, thanks to all for the info.just got an email from the ebay seller saying, sorry forgot to mention its a US version and needs a step down transformer, which he has and is willing to send, but to be honest i'm not willing to risk anymore and am going to either ask for a refund or if he'll pay for a service to mod it - i'm obviously pretty pissed off here and not willing to screw up the synth either by using the wrong transformer or doing the mod myself, so any other suggestions? anyone any idea how much it would cost to mod this, and if i should send it to someone like http://www.synthrepairservices.com/or just use an average electronics repair company like http://www.glse.co.uk/ who seem to have the skills i need, plus i wont need to pay shipping as i live near there/glasgow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mook Posted April 3, 2008 Members Share Posted April 3, 2008 Hi Mook are you saying that the 110V adapter stuff you bought worked on the 100V? Yes it did - luckily we don't have over-voltage here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mook Posted April 3, 2008 Members Share Posted April 3, 2008 this is sounding bad, thanks to all for the info. just got an email from the ebay seller saying, sorry forgot to mention its a US version and needs a step down transformer, which he has and is willing to send, but to be honest i'm not willing to risk anymore and am going to either ask for a refund or if he'll pay for a service to mod it - i'm obviously pretty pissed off here and not willing to screw up the synth either by using the wrong transformer or doing the mod myself, so any other suggestions? anyone any idea how much it would cost to mod this, and if i should send it to someone like http://www.synthrepairservices.com/ or just use an average electronics repair company like http://www.glse.co.uk/ who seem to have the skills i need, plus i wont need to pay shipping as i live near there/glasgow. If he's got the step down transformer then take it. If the synth is in good condition and you power it up and find it's all ok (particular problems will be noisy switch & key contacts as well as pots) the that'll be better than finding another which is in comparatively crap nick. The mod for the transformer really shouldn't cost alot and yes even a TV repair man could do it as it is straightforward (even I did mine!) - just make sure they fit a good quality transformer so you don't have problems with it buzzing in 6-months time. James at SRS is top notch but I know from reports on other forums is always very busy. Also consider Tony Oakley. Any of them should be able to give you a quote for the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don Solaris Posted April 3, 2008 Members Share Posted April 3, 2008 just got an email from the ebay seller saying, sorry forgot to mention its a US version It's Japanese version what you got, not the US. Look at the sticker. If you'd live in US this would not be a problem, as a total output at the secondary would be about 120%. But since you will be running that on 50Hz instead of 60Hz, it will no longer be 120% but 144% voltage increase at secondary winding. Some synths might still work, some might NOT. So i advise you not to use any adapter at all, as you can damage the power supply unit. Simply go to the nearest service store and tell them to install you a transformer with the same power rating and voltage at secondary. Total cost is nothing compared to synth's price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mook Posted April 3, 2008 Members Share Posted April 3, 2008 But since you will be running that on 50Hz instead of 60Hz, it will no longer be 120% but 144% voltage increase at secondary winding. I wouldn't think that the frequency would that have much effect Don. Japan has supplies at different frequencies throughout the country, so the transformer should operate without detrimental effect at either frequency (without resorting to the effects of the magnetising current at lower frequencies, and if my memory serves me right, a transformer is more effective at higher frequencies and thus the emf on the secondary would be slightly less on 50Hz). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Prog Posted April 3, 2008 Members Share Posted April 3, 2008 I wouldn't think that the frequency would that have much effect Don. Japan has supplies at different frequencies throughout the country, so the transformer should operate without detrimental effect at either frequency (without resorting to the effects of the magnetising current at lower frequencies, and if my memory serves me right, a transformer is more effective at higher frequencies and thus the emf on the secondary would be slightly less on 50Hz). I, too, would like to see how lowering the frequency increases the voltage. Looking at an analog power supply as a bandpass filter (which it is), this wouldn't be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don Solaris Posted April 3, 2008 Members Share Posted April 3, 2008 I wouldn't think that the frequency would that have much effect Don. Forget transformer for a second and just take a look at primary winding. What is it? A coil. What happens with the impedance of the coil when the frequency is increased? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Prog Posted April 3, 2008 Members Share Posted April 3, 2008 A coil is an inductor. It's reactance decreases with frequency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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