Ebtech Line Level Shifter Question

[Mike McLenison]

Here's my set up:

 

From guitar w/pedals into the Line In channel (accepts balanced & unbalanced) of my Mackie mixer, the volume seems a bit low even with the gain all the way up on the pedals and channel volume on the mixer.

 

I bought the Line Level Shifter new a while back and was wondering if it would help, so I hooked it up like this:

Guitar > SansAmp (Classic) amp simulator pedal > Boss DD7 (delay) > Line Level Shifter > Line In of mixer

 

It sounds great and the level is stronger with the LL Shifter but I'm still not sure why I need the SansAmp pedal all the way up as well as the channel level with the meter level only showing a mere half-way up. Shouldn't it be pinned?

 

Any insight would help.

[Reauchambeau]

 

Here's my set up: From guitar w/pedals into the Line In channel (accepts balanced & unbalanced) of my Mackie mixer, the volume seems a bit low even with the gain all the way up on the pedals and channel volume on the mixer. I bought the Line Level Shifter new a while back and was wondering if it would help, so I hooked it up like this: Guitar > SansAmp (Classic) amp simulator pedal > Boss DD7 (delay) > Line Level Shifter > Line In of mixer It sounds great and the level is stronger with the LL Shifter but I'm still not sure why I need the SansAmp pedal all the way up as well as the channel level with the meter level only showing a mere half-way up. Shouldn't it be pinned? Any insight would help.

 

 

the Sansamp Classic was designed to be used straight into a mixer, you shouldn't need a line level convertor. have you tried the Sansamp straight in?

[andreas]

Either the signal level isn't that strong to begin with - the LLS shifts the level by a fixed amount, and guitar signals are quite a bit less than "instrument level" to begin with. Or - which is actually more likely - it's an impedance mismatch. The LLS expects the output impedance of the source (what's driving it) to be less than 1Kohm, and to get the full amount of level shift it should be about 100 ohms. This works great for mixers etc, but not so well for guitar gear.

 

I'd probably just go straight from the DD-7 into the line input on the mixer. Line inputs on Mackie mixers are usually 20kohm, which would probably work much better for the DD-7 output. And the preamp should easily be able to bring the signal up to where you want it, using the gain control. Many of the newer (smaller) Mackie mixers even have special high impedance input settings on some line inputs. But even with the stock setting, it should work fine with the DD-7 driving it.

[Mike McLenison]

I think it actuall sounds better with the LLS in the chain. Would it hurt anything to keep it in?

[andreas]

No, but do you still have the problem of not enough signal level? A Mackie Mixer should easily be able to properly amplify a guitar signal, especially if there's a Boss pedal there to drive the line input. When you said you needed to crank the fader to max, how was the gain knob set?

[Mike McLenison]

Andreas, there is no gain knob on the line channel, just the level knob (Mackie 402-VLZ3 - stereo channel 3 for mono). The SansAmp pedal is full up. I was expecting it to get a stronger signal than the meter reading only half way up with everything else full up. With the LLS, I get about a 2-3 db gain on the meter, if I'm reading it correctly. I'm thinking about adding a Boss EQ after the SansAmp, so that should bring up the volume and give extra tone shaping.

[andreas]

Ah, those inputs don't have gain controls, that's right. I was thinking about the line input on one of the mike preamp sections. If removing the LLS doesn't improve things, or even makes things quieter still, then you know it's at least working. The best option would be to remove the LLS and use one of the mike preamps (trying the Hi-Z "guitar" button both on and off). Failing that, you'd need to boost the signal with some kind of preamp.

[Reauchambeau]

 

Ah, those inputs don't have gain controls, that's right. I was thinking about the line input on one of the mike preamp sections. If removing the LLS doesn't improve things, or even makes things quieter still, then you know it's at least working. The best option would be to remove the LLS and use one of the mike preamps (trying the Hi-Z "guitar" button both on and off). Failing that, you'd need to boost the signal with some kind of preamp .

 

 

the Sansamp Classic is a pre amp, it's not just a "guitar pedal".I agree on plugging into a channel strip.

[andreas]

By "preamp" I mean something that will amplify the guitar signal and spit out a proper line level signal. IIRC, the Sansamp Classic doesn't quite do that - it can get louder than the input signal, but it will not go to line level. The channel strip has a preamp that will do that, but if the OP already uses both of the channel strips for other stuff, a separate preamp is the only way to get the signal level up. A larger mixer would of course work too

[Reauchambeau]

well according to the manual it is not a distortion or fuzz pedal, but a device designed to be plugged directly into a recording console, pwr amp etc.

I've owned one since they first came out, it was one of the first amp simulators made for direct recording, once again it is not a "guitar pedal", not trying to be douchey, just stating what Sansamp marketed it as.

[andreas]

Yes, I've owned a couple of Sansamps too over the years, so I'm quite familiar with what they do. But don't confuse its purpose (to be a compact device for going direct or add another "channel" to your guitar amp) with its output signal level. Again, when I say it's not a proper preamp, I'm not talking about the way it sounds or the fact that it is meant for direct recording. I'm merely stating that it doesn't have a +4dB line level output (which is what you need to properly drive a power amp without any additional mixer etc, something which would have been useful to the OP).

[Mike McLenison]

Thanks for your replies. After playing with the routing for a while, here' what I've come up with. It definitely sounds much better with the Line Level Shifter: I do an acoustic solo Beatles tribute act and play acoustic with vocals and harmonies with the Harmony G.

 

Furman SPB-8C Pedal Board: Evidence guitar cable (lower right) > silver Buffer box > Lehle P-Splt (passive splitter w/isolated transformers) > Direct out sends it to TC Helicon Harmony G > Zoom AC2 > 2nd channel of mixer; Isolated out > SansAmp Classic > Decimator noise reduction > passive Line Level Shifter (-10 to +4) > 3rd channel of mixer. Output of mixer into a Sonic Maximizer 882.