Analog Advice

[Palaver]

Hey guys,

 

Sometime within the next few months, I plan on grabbing some sort of analog 'noise maker.'

 

The two boards that have really caught my interest are Moog's LP and the DSI Prophet 08. I've played and demoed both, and I know they're extremely different, but I can't decide which one would benefit my workflow more. Perhaps, if I give a little more background, one of you more experienced guys could offer some helpful insight.

 

First things first: I am a DAW user. I have both Logic and Ableton Live Suite. I do all my writing in Live. I'm a huge fan of USB midi, as it allows for an extremely neat/tight setup, and I can keep things compact... and I can whip through different sounds, etc., right off of my laptop.

 

So here is my problem: I love the Prophet 08 because it has 8-voices. Plus, I just love the sound. I think it's a great little piece of kit, and I am having an extremely hard time trying to figure out why so many people are ditching these!?!

 

HOWEVER:

 

I enjoy the setup/knobs, interface and USB on the Moog LP a lot more. I love it. However, it's only monophonic. But I want it!

 

So perhaps this is the deciding factor. What will compliment my DAWs and my main controller more effectively? My main keyboard is the Kurzweil PC3x. It's a wonderful controller, and I love the built-in sounds. It's perfect.

 

Somedays, I wake up and think... I want a Prophet... other times I am sold on the LP. I love both, and perhaps someday I will own both. However, after demoing them in stores, I just don't know what will benefit my setup more?

 

My biggest problem is that if I can't reach it, I won't use it... if it's too convoluted or too many menu screens... I forgot what the hell I was doing in the first place. I'm just starting to get comfortable in the DAW world, and I'd love to add some analog stuff that could really compliment my current work.

 

Anyone else here ever experience my dilemma?

[carbon111]

I think you'll be happier in the long run with the VA in the PC3X rather than the P'08. In other words, get the Moog LP!

 

I love the LP: http://www.carbon111.com/moog_lp.html :love:

[Palaver]

I think you'll be happier in the long run with the VA in the PC3X rather than the P'08. In other words, get the Moog LP! I love the LP: http://www.carbon111.com/moog_lp.html :love:

 

I agree. The VA in the PC3x is beautiful. It's a great board. Too bad mine has been in the repair shop for almost 6 weeks:mad:

 

I fired over an e-mail to Kurzweil, and hopefully they can help me out with it. Super great guys to talk to, however, I am just getting a little frustrated with the wait. It sucks dropping cash and you can't even play what you bought. And I'm sure the season that it broke (very late November) was no help either.

 

I love the Prophet. I also love the LP. It's small compact, and it has such a beautiful interface.

 

Thanks for the answer, and the link!

 

EDIT

 

BTW, you have a beautiful setup. The LA-610 is a definite on my purchase list. I'm a drummer and vocalist as well... and I notice you're into the TC stuff...

 

Nice room dude. I didn't spent too much time on your site, but did I see a Prophet 08' in one of them photos? Are you also guilty of selling that little beast!?

 

Cheers,

PB

[carbon111]

Thanks for the nice words re my setup, it was a long time coming together.

 

As far as the P'08 goes, it was an "okay synth with some flaws". After my honeymoon with it, I couldn't get it out the door fast enough.

There was a really long thread on KSS here about "Why you sold your Prophet '08 and what did you replace it with?" in which I detailed my problems with it...the upshot is I thought the filter was "gutless" and "anemic" and there were some flaws in the construction and the firmware that irked me. It's not really a synth I would recommend to anybody though I absolutely love Dave's PolyEvolver Keyboard.

 

My SCI Prophet 600, though limited in many ways compared to the P'08, sounds a lot better. Regardless of anything else, sound is my bottom line.

[soundxplorer]

So here is my problem: I love the Prophet 08 because it has 8-voices. Plus, I just love the sound. I think it's a great little piece of kit, and I am having an extremely hard time trying to figure out why so many people are ditching these!?!

 

I think the answer to P'08 enigma is relative to what other synths a particular user has owned or played. I've you've ever played a Prophet 5, or even a Jupiter 6 or Juno 60, the DSI stuff can sound a little lacking in the analog character department. I think the P'08 sounds good, but just not $2000 analog good.

 

Like a few other people on this forum, a Nord Lead satisfied me just as much for less than 1/3 the price. I think an Oberheim Matrix 1000 or Matrix 6R sounds as good or better than the P'08, for under $300, and those are fairly reliable for their age.

 

I do like the Little Phatty though. Again, if you go used and buy a vintage Moog Rogue, you'll get off cheaper. But there's no warranty

[carbon111]

Here's that post I mentioned...take everything with a grain of salt:

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showpost.php?p=28943304&postcount=22

 

[Don Solaris]

 

Hey guys, Sometime within the next few months, I plan on grabbing some sort of analog 'noise maker.' The two boards that have really caught my interest are Moog's LP and the DSI Prophet 08. I've played and demoed both, and I know they're extremely different, but I can't decide which one would benefit my workflow more. Perhaps, if I give a little more background, one of you more experienced guys could offer some helpful insight. First things first: I am a DAW user. I have both Logic and Ableton Live Suite. I do all my writing in Live. I'm a huge fan of USB midi, as it allows for an extremely neat/tight setup, and I can keep things compact... and I can whip through different sounds, etc., right off of my laptop. So here is my problem: I love the Prophet 08 because it has 8-voices. Plus, I just love the sound. I think it's a great little piece of kit, and I am having an extremely hard time trying to figure out why so many people are ditching these!?! HOWEVER: I enjoy the setup/knobs, interface and USB on the Moog LP a lot more. I love it. However, it's only monophonic. But I want it! So perhaps this is the deciding factor. What will compliment my DAWs and my main controller more effectively? My main keyboard is the Kurzweil PC3x. It's a wonderful controller, and I love the built-in sounds. It's perfect. Somedays, I wake up and think... I want a Prophet... other times I am sold on the LP. I love both, and perhaps someday I will own both. However, after demoing them in stores, I just don't know what will benefit my setup more? My biggest problem is that if I can't reach it, I won't use it... if it's too convoluted or too many menu screens... I forgot what the hell I was doing in the first place. I'm just starting to get comfortable in the DAW world, and I'd love to add some analog stuff that could really compliment my current work. Anyone else here ever experience my dilemma?

 

 

Jupiter 8

MemoryMoog

CS-80

....

[cram1960]

Andromeda + Waldorf Pulse

[idiotboy]

Given your described scenario, and assuming you'll get the PC3x back relatively soon, I'd go for the Phatty (first.)

 

Your PC3x is more than good enough to satisfy your poly needs until you can afford the P'08. Not so easily replicated with the PC3x are the Phatty's sounds, so I'd start with that, and later add the P'08.

 

Or an Andromeda. Or a Jupe8. MemoryMoog. CS-80....

 

[Palaver]

All the comments are greatly appreciated. Thanks, and here is my next questions.

 

Does Alesis constantly do re-runs of the A6? Or is there just a huge supply of sellers?

[idiotboy]

I don't know about constantly, but I do think they manufacture more from time to time.

 

Others here will correct me when I'm wrong.

 

 

[Delicious Lamprey Problem]

While A6s are on the shelves, I really can't see why anyone would buy a P'08, especially when retailers can be talked down at the moment. For $400 difference, it's a no-brainer.

[wetwareinterface]

a6 over a p08 anyday.

moog little phatty?

get a moog source instead. lot cheaper and will hold it's value if you decide to sell it later.

[idiotboy]

I'd love to have a Source.

 

But these days, I'm not sure it's a "lot cheaper" than a Phatty. And no MIDI on some of them, so that'll be an issue for him since he said he's a DAW user. And then there's the potential maintenance issues.

 

I'm not saying the Source is bad advice, just some extra points to consider.

 

Agree on the A6 though.

[keybdwizrd]

IMHO, an important question is - What kind of music do you play/compose?

 

I've got a LP Tribute, and I have to say that I enjoy having it. It's a quality instrument that sounds good and is fun to play.

 

All that being said, it is monophonic. And given its relatively simple modulation options, it's key strength is simply its tone. Wonderful for Moog-sounding basses and Moog-sounding leads - nice to have if you're doing the kind of music that could benefit from these kinds of things.

 

Then there's the business about who you create music for.... just yourself? Or do you compose for an audience? IMHO, especially within the context of a multi-instrument mix, I doubt many listeners could tell the difference between a $1200 (USD) Little Phatty and $200 Minimoog-emulation softsynth. And I also have to admit I tend to reach for my Virus TI when looking for scorching synth solo sounds, not the LP. I sometimes have a hard time getting the LP to play well in the mix with my other synths.

 

I've also got a P08, and it generally gets more use around here than the LP. Perhaps my piano background pushes me more in the direction of polyphonic playing, I dunno.

 

To my ears, the P08 is at its best when recreating those big polysynth sounds from days gone past. Whether it be a Prophet 5, Juno, Korg Polysix, Memormoog, whatever... the P08 handles all of that with style and substance. Mind you, I'm not obsessed with having a modern analog polysynth that sounds exactly like any of those, but I like having those kinds of sounds at my disposal. But they certainly don't find their way into every piece of music I compose.

 

Lastly, keep in mind that you'll likely want some kind of external multi-efx unit for use with either the LP or the P08. I find that dry analog synths sound really odd when played along with other not-so-dry digital/VA stuff.

[Palaver]

 

IMHO, an important question is - What kind of music do you play/compose? I've got a LP Tribute, and I have to say that I enjoy having it. It's a quality instrument that sounds good and is fun to play. All that being said, it is monophonic. And given its relatively simple modulation options, it's key strength is simply its tone. Wonderful for Moog-sounding basses and Moog-sounding leads - nice to have if you're doing the kind of music that could benefit from these kinds of things. Then there's the business about who you create music for.... just yourself? Or do you compose for an audience? IMHO, especially within the context of a multi-instrument mix, I doubt many listeners could tell the difference between a $1200 (USD) Little Phatty and $200 Minimoog-emulation softsynth. And I also have to admit I tend to reach for my Virus TI when looking for scorching synth solo sounds, not the LP. I sometimes have a hard time getting the LP to play well in the mix with my other synths. I've also got a P08, and it generally gets more use around here than the LP. Perhaps my piano background pushes me more in the direction of polyphonic playing, I dunno. To my ears, the P08 is at its best when recreating those big polysynth sounds from days gone past. Whether it be a Prophet 5, Juno, Korg Polysix, Memormoog, whatever... the P08 handles all of that with style and substance. Mind you, I'm not obsessed with having a modern analog polysynth that sounds exactly like any of those, but I like having those kinds of sounds at my disposal. But they certainly don't find their way into every piece of music I compose. Lastly, keep in mind that you'll likely want some kind of external multi-efx unit for use with either the LP or the P08. I find that dry analog synths sound really odd when played along with other not-so-dry digital/VA stuff.

 

 

I have a decent piano background. I would consider my style as a blues type piano hack. I started lessons when I was around 4, and continued on until I finished high school. The stuff that I write is really all over the place. Being a strong drummer as well... I sometimes write with blips and bops first... and then add piano.

 

My playing tends to be polyphonic. With the Moog, I'd use it for percussion sounds and basses... and leads. I'd probably re-run leads that I've written on the piano and do it that way.

 

I tend to write on the piano first, and then I move on from there. I write music for myself. It certainly isn't for money, but sometime this year, I do plan on performing again.

 

It's funny. I am also a huge Virus fan. The instruments over the past year that have really caught my eye are the Moog LP, Virus TI, Prophet 08' and the A6. The only problem with the A6 is that I've never gotten my hands on one... therefore, I can't comment on it. And, for the record, I love your playing, and I love the demos.

 

For a while I was hell-bent on getting a Receptor. However, plugins and keeping things update is starting to annoy me. I want to keep my computer simply for Logic Studio and Ableton Live Suite... and the effects/mixing/mastering plugins (I'd be doing the effects in the box). I'm not in any hurry to buy a synth... I love my setup, but I just really want something compact and portable that can really add to my palette.

 

I'm not hell-bent on creating my own presets. I like finding something and then tweaking it (one of the Virus TI's HUGE strengths). My music can be aggressive and it can be soft. I really am all over the place... I need aggressive as much as smooth and creamy... and I need polyphony as much as I need nice 'gliding' monophonic leads or basses.

 

In all honesty, the Virus TI is probably the best solution for me: DAW compatible, good effects, polyphonic, and great emulations along with some fabulous digital stuff. So perhaps I should pick up a SNOW and sit it on the Kurzweil.

 

I'd post some of my material but it's not imaged properly, nor is it finished.

 

But to be honest with you, I think a P'08 rack, and a Moog LP would compliment each other extremely nicely... and I can use Logic/Ableton to host effects. The thing that bugs me about the Virus is that it's digital... and that's what I am trying to steer away from as much as I love it.

 

So here is my next point to ponder:

 

Is an A6 greater than the LP + P'08 combo? If so I'd just hold out and get the A6.

 

Or should I just hop off the analog bandwagon and hit up the Virus?

 

Either way, it won't be until spring that I make my next purchase. I am also interested in seeing what NAMM introduces. If Access upgrade the Virus line and add firewire, that would be a HUGE step in the right direction for their synths.

 

Currently, my setup includes:

 

Ableton Live Suite

Logic Studio

Arturia Analog Factory

Novation Bass Station

Kurzweil PC3x

Apogee Ensemble

MacBook Pro

[soundwave106]

Is an A6 greater than the LP + P'08 combo? If so I'd just hold out and get the A6.

 

The A6 certainly is more flexible. Whether it's greater than or less than the LP + P'08 combo is up to you. Personally I am not familiar with the Little Phatty to comment on how it stands up to the A6. I feel that the Voyager can out-Moog an A6, but it's just one note, and the A6 can do a heck of a lot more, and the Voyager costs a bundle.

 

I don't have P'08 experience either. I do have a Polyevolver, and I do really like it, but I think it's strength is actually in the digital oscs, the sequencers, and the effects combining with the analog portion. The analog is nice but serviceable, I much prefer the A6 for analog sounds. But I'll take Evolver's analog over most VAs.

[keybdwizrd]

It's funny. I am also a huge Virus fan. The instruments over the past year that have really caught my eye are the Moog LP, Virus TI, Prophet 08' and the A6. The only problem with the A6 is that I've never gotten my hands on one... therefore, I can't comment on it.

 

Same here - I've never run across an Andromeda either. I must admit, however, to being somewhat prejudiced against the Andromeda for the silliest of reasons - I think it looks funny.

 

And, for the record, I love your playing, and I love the demos.

 

Thanks - I appreciate the encouragement.

 

Or should I just hop off the analog bandwagon and hit up the Virus?

 

Analog synths are not a great value when it comes to sound per dollar. They're quite limited in terms of the scope of sounds they can produce as opposed to romplers and digitals. Analog synths make sense if you enjoy playing around with them and/or your music really lends itself to the type of sounds that analog synths make. IMHO, there are quite a few people who've bought analog synths only to have a hard time finding a place for them in their music.

 

The Virus TI can produce thousands of sounds that an analog couldn't ever dream of doing. And it can do a reasonably good job of emulating analog instruments, but so can softsynths.

 

I've never played a Snow, but with so few knobs it seems to me to be more like a softsynth that runs outside of your computer's CPU. Personally, I really enjoy my Polar because it offers instant tweakability with all of the knobs and buttons.

[Palaver]

Let's see what NAMM 09' brings! I will apologize in advance... this post gets off topic.

 

I'd love to see the Virus line implement a speedier than USB connection...

 

Who knows... we're on the advent of USB 3.0. Hopefully, Apple don't try to phase out FW (which is a possibility that I've read on the Macrumour's page). It would make sense to do so... especially if USB 3.0 can perform on par/or better than FW800. From my understanding, USB is much easier/cheeper for intel to implement on their chipset... and if Apple can knock out FW, they'd be able to decrease their laptop size (which seems to be their current fetish) - they already blew out the FW on the entry MacBook line. It could be a taste for things to come. If they do that to all of their product line, it could really damage the music/interface/photography world (including their Apogee partners).

 

So in short, perhaps companies like Virus want to continue with the Virus OS updates, and wait it out... and perhaps the other interface designers will too. It would be a serious shame to Mac users if Apple are planning on excluding FW (as I heavily rely on FW for my Mac).

 

Another off topic point to ponder:

 

I don't understand any of the comments of stuff not being released? Anything slated for an 09' release would of been developed and tested long before the economic melt-down. We aren't going to see the results of the current crisis until mid-way '09. NAMM 2010 is the bust.