Fender's new 60W Head

[GWS5987]

Back in May of this year, a Fender sales rep told me about a new 60W Fender head that was going to come out in the fall. He said Fender had finally gotten the crunch tone right (they call it the "Burn" channel).

 

Anyway, this head will weigh less than 45 pounds and I'm very interested. Sent an e-mail to Fender but no response.

 

Anyone have any knowledge of when they might come out, have you hear it, etc?

 

TIA

[Pwn3d]

no, but slightly interesting

60w metal head?

[linusâ„¢]

i have to admit that there are a lot of current production combo amps made by fender that would sell great as a head..


usually if it is going to be a head and solid state they make them at least 100 watts..

being 60 watts, it sounds more like a tube amp..

but why would Fender put a "burn" channel on a tube amp?

[Whackmaster63]

Its the new eddie van halen amp:D :D

[GWS5987]

It was described to me as being a two channel, 60W all tube head sans reveb. The gain channel was finally perfect, with two gain controls.

 

I'll say this: If it's 1/2 of what he described, I'll own one.

[seajay]

Originally posted by GWS5987 Back in May of this year, a Fender sales rep told me about a new 60W Fender head that was going to come out in the fall. He said Fender had finally gotten the crunch tone right (they call it the "Burn" channel). Anyway, this head will weigh less than 45 pounds and I'm very interested. Sent an e-mail to Fender but no response. Anyone have any knowledge of when they might come out, have you hear it, etc? TIA

 

 

But Fender already had the crunch tone right with the Prosonic.

[potaetoes]

Originally posted by seajay But Fender already had the crunch tone right with the Prosonic.

 

 

yes, but the prosonic had its weak points. switching pop, barely-usable loop, channel voicings not quite balanced enough to share the EQ effectively...

 

if they are coming out with an amp that's similar to the prosonic without the downsides, that sounds close to as good, i will buy one in a heartbeat! i've been hoping for that to happen for a long time.

[potaetoes]

Originally posted by macmax the loop is not barely usable, it is Unusable, hehehhe I would buy me one too:D

 

 

it's usable with line-level rack stuff and outboard tube reverb units, stuff like that. just not at all with stomp boxes. it's simply an insert, no buffering or anything.

[buddastrat]

The prosonic was fuzzy and loose sounding. I remember trying both a head and a 2x10 combo. The low E would just flop when you tried to palm mute with it. It had a fat tone, it was just loose. I would not call that crunch at all. Marshall does crunch. Fender does big loose bottom blues.

It'd be cool if they could finally come out with a good rock amp. You know they have the best cleans in the biz.

[potaetoes]

Originally posted by buddastrat The prosonic was fuzzy and loose sounding. I remember trying both a head and a 2x10 combo. The low E would just flop when you tried to palm mute with it. It had a fat tone, it was just loose. I would not call that crunch at all. Marshall does crunch. Fender does big loose bottom blues. It'd be cool if they could finally come out with a good rock amp. You know they have the best cleans in the biz.

 

 

you dialed it in wrong, which is what most people do.

 

they're not amps you can just sit down and have a good tone in a few minutes without someone showing you the ropes, or doing a lot of reading in advance... because they're completely counterintuitive. they're also not amps you can say "well i've played a ton of amps and i know how to dial in good tone, i'm not amateur" because experience with other amps simply does not apply to the prosonic. the tone controls are powerful and very interactive.

 

for starters, the amp works best with low-output pickups. it has so much gain, you can get complete uber-saturated distortion even with standard single coils. loud humbuckers can be too much, especially if you set the gain high (but you don't need to).

 

the bass has to be around 2 or 3 tops, even lower with high-output pickups - any higher than that, and it will be flubby like you described. the treble also has to be quite low, 3 or 4 tops, or else... fuzz like you described. mids have to be up quite high or else... well you get the picture. dialed in right, they have muscular crunch that rivals or bests most marshalls i've played, and that's with the gain knobs both down around 3. with the gain higher, it approaches recto zone, only with a ton more complexity and richness, and a softer attack.

 

an alternate (and even more counterintuitive) way to dial them in is to set the EQ all to zero, max both gains and the master volume, then just barely add in bass, treble and mids to get the tone and volume you want. it doesn't take much... doing it this way you can get some pretty amazing tones with all the EQ knobs down below 2ish, even at very very low volumes.

[buddastrat]

Originally posted by potaetoes you dialed it in wrong, which is what most people do. they're not amps you can just sit down and have a good tone in a few minutes without someone showing you the ropes, or doing a lot of reading in advance... because they're completely counterintuitive. they're also not amps you can say "well i've played a ton of amps and i know how to dial in good tone, i'm not amateur" because experience with other amps simply does not apply to the prosonic. the tone controls are powerful and very interactive. for starters, the amp works best with low-output pickups. it has so much gain, you can get complete uber-saturated distortion even with standard single coils. loud humbuckers can be too much, especially if you set the gain high (but you don't need to). the bass has to be around 2 or 3 tops, even lower with high-output pickups - any higher than that, and it will be flubby like you described. the treble also has to be quite low, 3 or 4 tops, or else... fuzz like you described. mids have to be up quite high or else... well you get the picture. dialed in right, they have muscular crunch that rivals or bests most marshalls i've played, and that's with the gain knobs both down around 3. with the gain higher, it approaches recto zone, only with a ton more complexity and richness, and a softer attack. an alternate (and even more counterintuitive) way to dial them in is to set the EQ all to zero, max both gains and the master volume, then just barely add in bass, treble and mids to get the tone and volume you want. it doesn't take much... doing it this way you can get some pretty amazing tones with all the EQ knobs down below 2ish, even at very very low volumes.

 

 

 

Nope I dialed it in every which way, low and high. I never go by numbers anyhow. I usually just use my ears and sometimes it comes out crazy. Like when I had an SLO, highs would be off!

 

Clean was nice, real nice. But I didn't like the 2x10 as it didn't have much low end. I use low output pickups btw. I took it home for a few days, me and a buddy messed with it.

 

I ain't a tech but it might be the standard Fender style of gain circuit where they put the EQ before the gain stages. That makes it messy sounding to me. because the bass flubs when you add any. So I tried the bass down very low. Then you have to add an EQ in the loop to get any bass, which sucks. But the top end was still fuzzy. A smooth fuzzy type of gain. Real warm and saturated. But no tightness. I didn't experiment with different preamp tubes though. But, it reminded me of early Mesa stuff.

 

Some people may like that style of tone though.

I prefer a tighter, cleaner crunch with good punch.

[Zakko]

Wonder if it's going to be Point-To-Point like the Zinky stuff (Tone Master.)

[potaetoes]

Originally posted by buddastrat Nope I dialed it in every which way, low and high. I never go by numbers anyhow. I usually just use my ears and sometimes it comes out crazy. Like when I had an SLO, highs would be off! Clean was nice, real nice. But I didn't like the 2x10 as it didn't have much low end. I use low output pickups btw. I took it home for a few days, me and a buddy messed with it. I ain't a tech but it might be the standard Fender style of gain circuit where they put the EQ before the gain stages. That makes it messy sounding to me. because the bass flubs when you add any. So I tried the bass down very low. Then you have to add an EQ in the loop to get any bass, which sucks. But the top end was still fuzzy. A smooth fuzzy type of gain. Real warm and saturated. But no tightness. I didn't experiment with different preamp tubes though. But, it reminded me of early Mesa stuff. Some people may like that style of tone though. I prefer a tighter, cleaner crunch with good punch.

 

 

there's nothing standard about the drive circuit in the prosonic. it's not like anything else fender (or anyone) ever made. i owned one, and it was one of the most muscular sounding amps i've ever played through. maybe the tubes in the one you had were shot... but i still think you dialed it in wrong.

[buddastrat]

It's all subjective. I think I gave it a fair demo. As far as the circuit it may be cascaded gain stages and unique for them, but Fender always like to put the tone circuit before gain. Not sure if they did that with this but it sounds like they did.

They remind me of those Rivera designed Fenders. Remember that super cascaded gain tone? Like in those little super chump amps. I owned a few of them.

Didn't Gary Hoey use them for a while? I heard some of his later stuff and that's pretty much what they sounded like when I tried it. Not my thing.

[maz_master]

Originally posted by potaetoes you dialed it in wrong, which is what most people do. they're not amps you can just sit down and have a good tone in a few minutes without someone showing you the ropes, or doing a lot of reading in advance... because they're completely counterintuitive. they're also not amps you can say "well i've played a ton of amps and i know how to dial in good tone, i'm not amateur" because experience with other amps simply does not apply to the prosonic. the tone controls are powerful and very interactive. for starters, the amp works best with low-output pickups. it has so much gain, you can get complete uber-saturated distortion even with standard single coils. loud humbuckers can be too much, especially if you set the gain high (but you don't need to). the bass has to be around 2 or 3 tops, even lower with high-output pickups - any higher than that, and it will be flubby like you described. the treble also has to be quite low, 3 or 4 tops, or else... fuzz like you described. mids have to be up quite high or else... well you get the picture. dialed in right, they have muscular crunch that rivals or bests most marshalls i've played, and that's with the gain knobs both down around 3. with the gain higher, it approaches recto zone, only with a ton more complexity and richness, and a softer attack. an alternate (and even more counterintuitive) way to dial them in is to set the EQ all to zero, max both gains and the master volume, then just barely add in bass, treble and mids to get the tone and volume you want. it doesn't take much... doing it this way you can get some pretty amazing tones with all the EQ knobs down below 2ish, even at very very low volumes.

 

 

I agree completely. Never owned a Prosonic, but played many and always thought they were incredible amps...after spending a little time dialing them in.

[marder explorer]

+1 on that being a messed up amp, I owned a TSL100 for a few years, and I know the Marshall sig crunch very well. I went down to a local shop recently and had the guy demo the NOS 2x10 Prosonic combo they had in their window and it easily sounded more Marshally than my TSL ever did when I asked him to set it up for crunchy rhythm.

Not saying you are wrong, just saying it's definitely got it in there, he played it with a stock MIA Tele, not really a rocker guitar.

[Hotcakes]

I'd be interested in this. Especially after the dissapointment that was the Metalhead. I thought it sounded descent, but was just bland. And overpriced.

As for the Prosonic, there's a local stoner band that uses them and they have such a godly tone. Massive and muscular. And they use Bill Lawrence single coils in hardtail strats.

[potaetoes]

Originally posted by buddastrat It's all subjective. I think I gave it a fair demo. As far as the circuit it may be cascaded gain stages and unique for them, but Fender always like to put the tone circuit before gain. Not sure if they did that with this but it sounds like they did. They remind me of those Rivera designed Fenders. Remember that super cascaded gain tone? Like in those little super chump amps. I owned a few of them. Didn't Gary Hoey use them for a while? I heard some of his later stuff and that's pretty much what they sounded like when I tried it. Not my thing.

 

 

the tone stack is actually after the gain. the thing that makes it so unusual is that almost every knob has a dual purpose, for example turning the second gain affects things before and after the tone stack... same with the master, etc. also, the two gain controls make it able to have a bunch of different voicings - if you leave the second one really low, the amp is voiced more traditionally. the more you raise the second one, the more sturated and modern the tone gets, along with more compression (which starts leaning toward the mesa mark-series tone).

 

basically the way the amp is laid out, the two channels have separate paths after the input stage, then the two paths join just before the tone stack. the clean channel simply bypasses the extra stages of the drive channel and goes straight to the tone drive, while the gain channel adds in the cascading stuff with various bleeder and bypass caps in addition to the coupling caps, which shape the tone somewhat. the switching is only at the tail end, so the two channels are still connected at the front end all the time, and the gain settings of the inactive channel have a subtle effect on the sound of the active one since both channels present some load to the signal all the time. changing a cap in the "clean" path will affect the sound of the "drive" channel, and vice versa.

 

sure no amp is for everyone, but most people who have spent a lot of time with prosonics have unlocked some mind-blowing tones. most people who have just tried them out or only messed around with them a few times, usually have bad things to say. i think that speaks volumes.

[NoirAbattoir]

Originally posted by buddastrat The prosonic was fuzzy and loose sounding. I remember trying both a head and a 2x10 combo. The low E would just flop when you tried to palm mute with it. It had a fat tone, it was just loose. I would not call that crunch at all. Marshall does crunch.

 

 

I agree. Fender's best overdrive tones are to be found in tweeds and blackface bassmans.

[Talkshowhost]

Man, I wish I would have never sold my Prosonic.
Ripping overdrive tones, tight in SS mode, sweet and crunchy in class A.

[buddastrat]

Originally posted by potaetoes the tone stack is actually after the gain. the thing that makes it so unusual is that almost every knob has a dual purpose, for example turning the second gain affects things before and after the tone stack... same with the master, etc. also, the two gain controls make it able to have a bunch of different voicings - if you leave the second one really low, the amp is voiced more traditionally. the more you raise the second one, the more sturated and modern the tone gets, along with more compression (which starts leaning toward the mesa mark-series tone). basically the way the amp is laid out, the two channels have separate paths after the input stage, then the two paths join just before the tone stack. the clean channel simply bypasses the extra stages of the drive channel and goes straight to the tone drive, while the gain channel adds in the cascading stuff with various bleeder and bypass caps in addition to the coupling caps, which shape the tone somewhat. the switching is only at the tail end, so the two channels are still connected at the front end all the time, and the gain settings of the inactive channel have a subtle effect on the sound of the active one since both channels present some load to the signal all the time. changing a cap in the "clean" path will affect the sound of the "drive" channel, and vice versa. sure no amp is for everyone, but most people who have spent a lot of time with prosonics have unlocked some mind-blowing tones. most people who have just tried them out or only messed around with them a few times, usually have bad things to say. i think that speaks volumes.

 

 

That's fine, but are there any good clips or recordings of this amp's dirt tone? It jut reminded me so much of those Rivera amps in many ways.

[GWS5987]

I guess the bottom line here is: "No one knows".

 

I thought there might be a Fender insider around these parts. I'll just have to wait until they come out.

[potaetoes]

Originally posted by macmax the guy from Argentina, the one that used to play with Sting used them to play live and record all of the time. Potatoes: What tubes u have or had in yours? What do you think about a 7025 RCA 0r 12at7 in V1 ? Thanks

 

 

the best results i got were from using an RCA 5751 in V1, and RCA blackplate 12ax7 in V2 another 5751 in V3, and a GE 12ax7 in V6. if i had more of those 5751s i probably would have used them in all 6 positions, they just sounded fantastic in that amp. they're a little less gain than a 12ax7 but not as boring and thin sounding as a 12at7. great tubes!

 

V4 and V5 are the reverb tubes, and you can kinda change the feel of the reverb by changing those around, but i just used whatever quietest tubes i had around in those slots.

 

i didn't try many power tubes - the ruby 6L6MSTR in it when i got it seemed to sound fine.