Members Bob Savage Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Originally posted by gRxMx Well thats like going into Best Buy and asking "Hey, that plasma is nice but I sure dont like that 8,000 price tag". Well to them its like "Well I sold one yesterday, so apparently people like it fine so get lost". If they did that for everyone they wouldnt make money at all, and they'd be out of business. It really is ridiculous to walk into a store and just blatantly tell a salesperson to bring the price down. The ONLY way that will ever happen at guitar center is if you're buying alot of gear, and its small stuff. OR...if you've bought/sold several thousand+ in gear there. OR....if you know someone personally.....OR...if you have proof from another retailer of cost lower than theirs...OR if the item is defected. Then you can leverage with them. Have you ever bought from GC? I have, for 25 years or so, and have NEVER bought an item for their asking price, in fact, I've walked out with most of my gear from GC anywhere between 20%-40% less than the price listed, and it doesn't matter who I'm dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members STEEL KAGE Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Originally posted by Bob Savage Have you ever bought from GC? I have, for 25 years or so, and have NEVER bought an item for their asking price, in fact, I've walked out with most of my gear from GC anywhere between 20%-40% less than the price listed, and it doesn't matter who I'm dealing with. +1 . My Experiences with GC obviously dont span as long a time frame as yours but they are the same none the less. Sure, ya get some Newb salesman every now and then but it isnt hard to ask for a manager or someone else to help you get what youre looking for near or at the price youre looking to pay. Shopping isnt Rocket science......... Kage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Borat Sagdiyev Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 I guess GC is quite different than what I'm used to. Do they put list prices like MSRP prices on the stickers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bud-Man Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 I worked at GC 4 years ago. I can tell you what margins they work with. Typical guitar and amp margin is around 30%- that is an overall figure for a whole month. I usually had a margin on all the stuff I sold of about 30%. This came from making deals on all gear, but this was considered to be really good. Guitar and amp margins are actually higher than pro audio and keyboards where the margin is about 20%. An acoustic that sells for $199, like a Yamaha or Ibanez had the best margins- these cost like $100 to buy- the markup on these is double. More expensive stuff is not as much mark up. Profit on $199 guitar is $100, profit on $2,000 Gibson Les Paul was about $500. So there is room for negotiation, but on some things you are moving from a 30% mark up such as Marshall,Fender, Vox, Line 6, etc.. A lot of $1,000 guitars have a cost of about $700- you ain't getting one for $700 unless something is wrong with it or if someone is doing you a favor- that is what an employee would buy it for. And if you think you should get a $1000 guitar for $800, there is then only $100 of profit there. Anyway, just trying to show that GC being a mass retailer does not have huge margins on everything- the idea is to sell quantity- The room to move isn't always that high though- when a GC guy checks the computer to see if he can give you a price, he is checking the margin on that product which is accessible on the computers they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UVguy Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 I used to work in the bicycle industry, and people off the street would come in and want a deal, first time in the store. Thats just wrong. Support the little guy, be faithful and you'll get your deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob Savage Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Originally posted by UVguy I used to work in the bicycle industry, and people off the street would come in and want a deal, first time in the store. Thats just wrong. Support the little guy, be faithful and you'll get your deals. If the store wants to make a sale to me, they'll negotiate. If I were to walk into a bike store, first time, and no negotiating was done because it was my first time in which as you claim is "wrong," that bike store not only lost the initial sale, but lost future sales to me. The store can stick by their "principles" or they can make money. It's their choice, but one of them will cost them money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mister kyo Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Originally posted by HeywoodJablome I guess GC is quite different than what I'm used to.Do they put list prices like MSRP prices on the stickers? they dont put list prices, although its funny because they try to trick you into thinking their normal price is a "sale" because the list price is higher. most of the time, though, the prices arent outrageous. but i want to spend less money, plain and simple. i will always ask for a better deal on anything thats worth $50 or more. if the price is totally reasonable, and they wont give me a good deal, ill probably take it at the price they give me--but that doesnt mean im not going to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob Savage Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Originally posted by mister kyo i will always ask for a better deal on anything thats worth $50 or more. I ask for a discount when I'm buying $10.00 of picks, or even a single set of strings (rare, but I've done it). I'm a penny pincher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mister kyo Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 hah, i did that once. i went in just to buy some strings, laid out 4 bills and some change, mostly nickels. before i started counting the girl said the bills were fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chubtone Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Originally posted by jhall You guys are nuts right?My buddy owns the local mom and pop music store in my town. Hei "low cost" Guitars are very cheap (read inexpensive as most guitars nowadays are of reasonably good quality)for him to buy at wholesale. one Example is the Suzuki Strat copies. They are excellent guitars and they sound fantastic, stay in tune and have a very comfortable neck. He gets them 6 at a time and his cost per is $59.00. He sells them for $189.00 and nobody has ever been unhappy with it.If these are his costs at mom and pop buying level. YOu can only imagine what kind of "room" GC has to work with. I own a "mom and pop" shop and we have been in business for 12 years. There are 6 GC's or Sam Ash's within a half hour of my store. Your buddies mark up on those $59 Suzuki strats to $189 is outrageous. We don't ever have a single thing in our store that is anywhere close to that mark-up. That's a 200% markup! Crazy! We try and make 30-50% on our stuff. Guitar Center is making alot more than 30% on most of their guitar and amp stuff. As a small store, I take my wholesale price and can often easily make 50% and match Guitar Center's "sale" price. When there were a ton of mom and pop shops, Guitar Center had great prices. Now that Guitar Center has put most of the mom and pops out of business, I have seen their prices creeping back up. So Guitar Center then buys Musicians Friend, their number one on-line competitor. Their stock is through the roof lately too. You've got to keep those shareholders happy. Guitar Center is making record profits almost every quarter because in most of the country they have no competition anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members workinclasszero Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 The thing is, the guys at GC are commission. Most GC set it up as 10% of gross profit and 2% of gross sales. The rest are just 10% of gross profit, those tend to be the GCs with the higher turnover rates. Working my ass off, I barely made $1100 a month. Mind you, my replacement was a mouth breather who had never played an electric guitar before. So that just shows you what they think of people with product knowledge. Most "grinders" are just nearsighted assholes who don't get it. Also, Monster cable prices at set by Monster. GC employees can't even buy them at cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Originally posted by Bob Savage If the store wants to make a sale to me, they'll negotiate. If I were to walk into a bike store, first time, and no negotiating was done because it was my first time in which as you claim is "wrong," that bike store not only lost the initial sale, but lost future sales to me.The store can stick by their "principles" or they can make money. It's their choice, but one of them will cost them money. IBD's don't make money selling bikes - they break even. they make money selling service and accessories. it's not smart to throw away money on someone who for all they know is simply price-hunting and may never come back for the other stuff. unless there's some kind of indication that a regular customer will come out of it, there's really nothing to gain by discounting bikes for everyone who walks in the door. the first time you walk in, the goal isn't to get you to buy something, the goal is to get you to come back a second time. this isn't done by dropping prices willy-nilly, this is done by being informative, helpful, friendly, knowedgeable, having stuff in stock, and basically showing what a resource the shop can be. if you leave and never return because you didn't like what the shop offered, that's one thing. but if you leave and never come back simply because prices weren't dropped for you... big deal. that's exactly the type of customer that isn't worth wasting time with. the shop makes money by being smart in the long run, not being stupid for every individual customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members relva2 Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 hahahaha i can't believe you people attacking this guy who wants a fair price and calling GC fair! is it fair when GC tries to charge me $200 for a case that fender says is included free? i've had more {censored} handed to me in that store than anywhere else. now my other store (somewhat big, but not more than statewide) they discount their prices so that after tax its the same as it would be from the online market--but its not advertised. so you gotta go there to get the deal, which is fine by me because they aren't assholes like the GC vampires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob Savage Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Originally posted by potaetoes IBD's don't make money selling bikes - they break even. they make money selling service and accessories. it's not smart to throw away money on someone who for all they know is simply price-hunting and may never come back for the other stuff. unless there's some kind of indication that a regular customer will come out of it, there's really nothing to gain by discounting bikes for everyone who walks in the door. the first time you walk in, the goal isn't to get you to buy something, the goal is to get you to come back a second time. this isn't done by dropping prices willy-nilly, this is done by being informative, helpful, friendly, knowedgeable, having stuff in stock, and basically showing what a resource the shop can be. if you leave and never return because you didn't like what the shop offered, that's one thing. but if you leave and never come back simply because prices weren't dropped for you... big deal. that's exactly the type of customer that isn't worth wasting time with.the shop makes money by being smart in the long run, not being stupid for every individual customer. That's great that you know how the whole bike retail thing works, but my point remains, no deal on the bike, no sale on accessories at the time of the bike purchase or a later time, period. In then end they may make more with the method they chose, or perhaps they've turned enough people like myself away that they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members workinclasszero Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Originally posted by relva2 hahahaha i can't believe you people attacking this guy who wants a fair price and calling GC fair! is it fair when GC tries to charge me $200 for a case that fender says is included free? i've had more {censored} handed to me in that store than anywhere else. now my other store (somewhat big, but not more than statewide) they discount their prices so that after tax its the same as it would be from the online market--but its not advertised. so you gotta go there to get the deal, which is fine by me because they aren't assholes like the GC vampires. believe me, GC employees will do slimy things if it means making rent. It isn't all their fault. I knew some really good guys who left GC because of how guilty it made them feel to push warrenties to some 14 year old kid who spent months saving money for his POD or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Originally posted by Bob Savage That's great that you know how the whole bike retail thing works, but my point remains, no deal on the bike, no sale on accessories at the time of the bike purchase or a later time, period. In then end they may make more with the method they chose, or perhaps they've turned enough people like myself away that they're not. in the end, it's the most sound and proven approach in the industry for IBD's. betting on the future business of someone whose priority is price, is a foolish bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members relva2 Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 as much as i'd like to blame the people there, i know a lot of it is the coprorate structure. i think commission is a crummy way to drive sales, it only forces the people there to be assholes to get food on the table, which drives away people like me who just want to try out gear before i buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FWAxeIbanez Posted November 1, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 wow, I can't believe this thread lasted this long... I don't really understand the attacks either, I mean if Musicians Friend can offer it then they are still getting plenty of money from me, which is fine, its a business... and I know EVERYONE in that GC, minus the one guy I was dealing with... I know about mark ups and all that, and I know mark ups are probably small on line 6 pedals, which is why I didn't plan on getting away with robbery... You guys are getting a bit carried away it seems, there's a difference between going into best buy and asking for a discount on that 72 inch plasma TV... that employee would get fired, but at GC "haggling" is part of the picture, it's encouraged... The guys giving me a hard time should consider thier experiences at car dealerships, you don't pay the sticker price there without asking do you? I realize there is a time and place for negotiation, and if they can't give me the price I want, it's ok... no harm done... if I'm asking for an outrageous price its probably because i'm so interested in the product that I would spend the last dime I had on it, and that last dime is what I'm trying to bring the price down to... I don't think that a standard deal like knocking off tax is unfair and lastly, ok ok ok fine, Korn could of used a big muff... but trust me, this guy didn't know that... he was edging his way into his 50's and anyway, a kid trying to dial in Korn's sound isn't gonna get it by being handed a big muff right off the bat... you should have seen the look on this kids face, it was classic... that kid wanted some hilariously high gain magic device that would turn his 30 watt combo into a thumping nu-metal beast, not a link in the chain on the way to the actual "Korn" sound he didn't even know what he had! the first thing he did was turn the gain and volume all the way up... c'mon! thats not how you use anything! I'm not bashing big muffs by the way, I'm bashing 16 year old Korn fans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UVguy Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 Originally posted by Bob Savage If the store wants to make a sale to me, they'll negotiate. If I were to walk into a bike store, first time, and no negotiating was done because it was my first time in which as you claim is "wrong," that bike store not only lost the initial sale, but lost future sales to me.The store can stick by their "principles" or they can make money. It's their choice, but one of them will cost them money. Do you negotiate your groceries? Meds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members code_blue Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 Originally posted by HeywoodJablome When people buy a guitar and amp (even {censored}ty ones) they think theyre doing the store a favour, and expect me to throw in a bunch of extras. Ummmm they are doing the store a favor.... Its people like you that make me dread going to guitar stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members code_blue Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 I saw a used JSX for $100 more than they are new at the local guitar store. They are like a GC clone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jaymeister Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 I've had guys waste my time by going over to the computer and then tapping at their calulator only to come back to me and say thea they can't do anything, when I know I can get the same item for 10% cheaper across town..but I guess they wanted me to take a drive:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tone slave Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 Originally posted by mister kyo this is guitar center. they're allowed to take up to 30% or more off of every item. asking them to knock off tax would be nothing. a person deserves a better price if they have sense enough to ask. GC isnt a mom and pop store. it doesnt hurt them enough to make a difference for them to give discounts. if the individual employee wont haggle, thats all they gotta do. just say no.trying to get the most for you money makes you sick? what the {censored}? GC tagged price is usually 25-30% off retail already. if they took another 30% off that, they'd be selling gear almost at cost. salespeople are paid commission based on profit. i'm not sure what their motivation to sell stuff at zero profit would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tone slave Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 Originally posted by Bradman006 Only suckers pay retail. You can ALWAYS get a petter price. Shop around, you just have to know how to ask and play shops off each oter. Especially in big stores with alot of buying power. I'm getting $1200 Australian Dollars of the retail price of my new Framus Cobra. who said anything about retail? GC doesn't tag their stuff at retail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tone slave Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 Originally posted by HeywoodJablome I don't knonw about GC, but at L&M we skip on the list price BS, and the sticker price is the final price. No haggling bull{censored} to the real price, it is the real price. the sticker price at GC is supposed to be the real price. even if they tagged their stuff at an even lower price, people would still ask for a discount. i think if the tag said "take this guitar for free and we'll give you $20" some people would ask why you can't give them $30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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