Members Thenabi Posted June 12, 2006 Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 Hello all, just registered. I always use harmony central for reviews, so why not? My question is this: is it pointless to use a distortion pedal in a tube amp if you wanted the tube sounding distortion? I want to get a certain metal tone out of an amp I'm looking at (Traynor ycv80), but I'm wondering that if the distortion doens't go high enough that using a pedal would negate any positive reason for having tubes. Thanks for any help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JonathanD Posted June 12, 2006 Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 I use a Bad Monkey overdrive pedal on my amps from time to time. It makes them even better sounding IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acousticvoodoo Posted June 12, 2006 Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 Originally posted by Thenabi Hello all, just registered. I always use harmony central for reviews, so why not?My question is this: is it pointless to use a distortion pedal in a tube amp if you wanted the tube sounding distortion? I want to get a certain metal tone out of an amp I'm looking at (Traynor ycv80), but I'm wondering that if the distortion doens't go high enough that using a pedal would negate any positive reason for having tubes.Thanks for any help! In my mind, there are at least two ways to use pedal distortion with an amp. - Set the amp "clean" and let the distortion box create the main "tone", and use the amp to make that tone louder... - Set the amp to breakup with natural "tube" distortion, and use the distortion box, setup for a "clean boost" or just slightly more distortion... In the first case, the sound you get is mostly dependent on the pedal. If you like the sound of your distortion pedal... this should make you pretty happy. In the second case, the sound you get is mostly dependent on your amp. If you like the sound you get from driving your amp... but want to boost or make that sound more intense... this is a better idea. Of course you COULD just turn BOTH up all the way... but you're going to be lucky if you don't get pure MUD from that approach. Maybe you might want or like that sound... so it's worth a try to see... If you experiment with different variations of what I've described... I bet you find a sound you can live with. michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zepremains Posted June 12, 2006 Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 the last post was pretty good advice. i feel the sound of tube amps are more organic. a comparison could be made between an analog curve vs. a digital curve. one may bend and twist with the x-value while the other will hit certain points with each x-value. just my abstract way of looking at it...but putting a digital device in front will only change the input into the analog device (tube amp) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members yoh_yoh Posted June 12, 2006 Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 Guitar Player Oct 1992, The Distortion Issue. I have this. Page 46: Metallica's James Hetfield: "Distortion always starts with the amp. Pedals just site on top of the sound. They don't feel like a full part of it, just some fuzz on top. You can fiddle with parametric EQs and all that {censored} for days, but it still won't have the smooth distortion of an amp. The last time I used a distortion [overdrive] pedal was on Ride the Lightning, and it was hell. and that is VERY true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thenabi Posted June 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 Right, I heard of the harmonics deal with tubes - so basically what's happening is the tubes don't affect sound (ie with the harmonics) until the distortion kicks in? The clean boost sounded like a good idea to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members emodot Posted June 12, 2006 Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 Put a distortion pedal into a solidstate poweramp and a tube poweramp, tell me which one sounds better and reacts more. Just because the valves aren't forming the majority of the distortion, doesn't mean they don't affect sound and feel heavily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acousticvoodoo Posted June 12, 2006 Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 Originally posted by Thenabi Right, I heard of the harmonics deal with tubes - so basically what's happening is the tubes don't affect sound (ie with the harmonics) until the distortion kicks in? The clean boost sounded like a good idea to me... It's really tough to "talk" about this... and have you fully understand. On the other hand... if you're in the room with a nice tube amp like the Traynor and a decent pedal... you would be able to HEAR the difference right away. Basically the idea is that the "sweet" distortion sounds that heavy rock was built on came from cranking up amps so that they were "overdriven into distortion". But instead of that sounding bad... it sounded GREAT! But there were some problems. To get that sound from a 100 watt Marshall... you had to turn it UP. LOUD. In fact, the louder the better ! So how were you going to play the "quiet" parts without turning your amp down? Or for that matter, unless you're playing concert halls... where are you going to be able to play that loud... period? So... pedals were created during the 60's and from then on... it's been a lot easier to get a distorted sound... but NOT always the sound of a heavily driven amp. Sometimes more of a "buzz-saw" type thing. But there is a HUGE number of pedal makers. Some of which specialize in driving an amp that is setup to be "just below" the "breakup" level of distortion. Using these pedals along with either the guitar volume control or a volume pedal... you can get a wide range of great sounding useable tone for rock type tones. Generally, the "harsher" you prefer your distortion, the more you will rely on the sound of the pedals that specialize in that tone. I don't think there are many amps, (the Traynor included), that can get the "harshest" sounding metal tones... without some help. You never say what kind of tone you're really looking for... what type of music are you trying for? Who's tone do you like? There are tons of tips on how to cop a particular player's vibe... let us know what you want the tone to be... and you'll get a bunch of ideas. michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted June 12, 2006 Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 It comes from the mystical tube layer in the earth's crust that radiates into every tube amp. Except 5150's and Crates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thenabi Posted June 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 Well, being a beginning or intermediate guitarist (or beginning ), I'd have to say that I like many different tones, but for distortion, I really like the smooth metal tone with a touch of the nirvana-ish grunge. Not nu-metal, more like metal with soul, or something like that. But I do a lot of double picking palm mutes, so getting a chunk that opens up really hot is nice. I also play a lot of clean stuff, and for that I like just a nice low end and good "big guitar" feel (if that translates from the drum world...), which I always get really well from my Godin. You guys are amazingly helpful!! Lastly, I'm only looking for an amp right now....the traynor is my price limit, so no higher than that. Factor in the fact that I really should be buying a new snare (since I'm more of a drummer, heehee), but any suggestions there are helpful. I've just found that 2x12's usually sound so much better to my ears, as do tube amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zepremains Posted June 12, 2006 Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 most of these guys that can get great tube distortion out of a marshall 50 or 100 watt amp must live on an island...or at least in a field away from other humans for animals. you just are not going to get it from those amps at listenable volumes. example is an ac30. it sounds best played at unlistenable volumes placed in another room. a good 5-10 watt tube amp is what needs to be made. if it has been made let me know. thanks (good topic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members emodot Posted June 12, 2006 Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 Originally posted by Thenabi Well, being a beginning or intermediate guitarist (or beginning ), I'd have to say that I like many different tones, but for distortion, I really like the smooth metal tone with a touch of the nirvana-ish grunge. Not nu-metal, more like metal with soul, or something like that. But I do a lot of double picking palm mutes, so getting a chunk that opens up really hot is nice. I also play a lot of clean stuff, and for that I like just a nice low end and good "big guitar" feel (if that translates from the drum world...), which I always get really well from my Godin. You guys are amazingly helpful!! Lastly, I'm only looking for an amp right now....the traynor is my price limit, so no higher than that. Factor in the fact that I really should be buying a new snare (since I'm more of a drummer, heehee), but any suggestions there are helpful. I've just found that 2x12's usually sound so much better to my ears, as do tube amps. Used Peavey XXX + Avatar 2x12? That's about the same price as a new YCV80. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members yoh_yoh Posted June 12, 2006 Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 just put a metal master with a vintage amp on CLEAN and you will be happy for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thenabi Posted June 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 A vintage meaning a tube amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thenabi Posted June 12, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 I also learned that replacing tubes in this amp is easy so I'll look into that... wonder how much the sound can change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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