For my new JCM 800 2203... Greenbacks or G12-65s (or Weber 1265s)?

[Greazygeo]

Originally posted by atbear Is that what you prefer to use with your Wizards and amps like that? No problem handling the wattage and bass, etc? Have you ever tried the G12-65s?

Not a problem at all...even with my 20 watters. I didn't care for the 65's or H30's personally. Its pretty much either GB's or Classic Leads.....

[potaetoes]

ted weber told me his version 65 was the same sensitivity as the original G12-65.

[Greazygeo]

Originally posted by atbear Is that what you prefer to use with your Wizards and amps like that? No problem handling the wattage and bass, etc? Have you ever tried the G12-65s?

...and those 2203's aren't known for much low end, so I wouldn't worry about GB's handling one....

[atbear]

Originally posted by potaetoes ted weber told me his version 65 was the same sensitivity as the original G12-65.

Nope... the G1265s are 97dB, while the Weber 1265s are 99dB.

[atbear]

 

Originally posted by Greazygeo Not a problem at all...even with my 20 watters. I didn't care for the 65's or H30's personally. Its pretty much either GB's or Classic Leads.....

 

That is good to know if I decide on the Greenbacks. What didn't you like about the G12-65s? I don't really care for the H30s either... I find their high end "presense" a little pronounced, and it sounds a bit harsh to me. Sounds like the G12-65s with their GB sized magnet and larger dustcap would have rolled off highs that would make them warmer than H30s.

[potaetoes]

 

Originally posted by atbear Nope... the G1265s are 97dB, while the Weber 1265s are 99dB.

 

 

fwiw, i had a cab loaded with G12-65s and added a greenback cab, and the greenback cab buried the 65 cab as far as presence and brightness was concerned. the eq curve of the 65s makes them seem even quieter than they are. the big low end uses up a lot of power.

[keith2112]

I have greenbacks for my JCM800 2203x. I use both humbuker and single coil guitars with a Fulltone OCD pedal. It rocks. Personally if you're getting enough gain the 75 watt celestions are way too under rated. They sound great just the righ amount of break up and headroom.

[atbear]

 

Originally posted by potaetoes fwiw, i had a cab loaded with G12-65s and added a greenback cab, and the greenback cab buried the 65 cab as far as presence and brightness was concerned. the eq curve of the 65s makes them seem even quieter than they are. the big low end uses up a lot of power.

 

Were the G12-65s still alive, organic and open sounding even though they had less presense and brightness? Did they still have a good attitude about them? I'd love a speaker that I could crank my amp a little louder with and not get blown away, or have ear fatigue.

 

Were the two cabs about the same loudness by volume?

 

Thanks!

Drew

[Greazygeo]

 

Originally posted by atbear That is good to know if I decide on the Greenbacks. What didn't you like about the G12-65s? I don't really care for the H30s either... I find their high end "presense" a little pronounced, and it sounds a bit harsh to me. Sounds like the G12-65s with their GB sized magnet and larger dustcap would have rolled off highs that would make them warmer than H30s.

Ive played thru two differnt H30 cabs (not a great sampling for sure), one was a '69 straight front pre rolas and the other a '73 slant. The 69 cab sounded very scooped. I had my 68 slant with GB 20's right beside it and much preferred it. The 73 is really bright, I actually hate that one.

 

The 65's just seemd blah sounding, its been awhile since I tried them. But again I had my 68 cab right next to it and that cab just crushes.

 

My Wizard cabs have RI GB's and they sound great with both the Wizard's and my Marshall's/ Orange.

[jfaaz]

How about Weber Alnico Blue Dog 50 watters?

 

I have one in my Classic 30 and it sounds awesome.

[psychodave]

I think you need to try out some different speakers...either at a store or at a friends house. Speakers sound very different to each person and each place. I personally think speakers are the most important part of the system. For example, you could have a crappy amp, but with a good set of speakers, the amp will still sound decent. If you have the best amp, but crappy speakers, the amp will sound crappy. It is that simple. What I am trying to get at is you need to let YOUR ears tell you what is good, not someone elses. I personally love G12T-75's... but I know you dont. That is what makes the world go around

 

Here is a list of my 4X12's from left to right, top to bottom. I use Marshall and Mesa amps.

G12T-75 G12H-30 G12-65 G12M-25 G12M-25

G12T-75 G12H-30 G12-65 G12T-75 G12M-25

 

 

My least favorite speaker is the G12M-25 and my favorite speaker is the G12H-30. Next is the G12-65. (note that I have all old speakers. The G12T-75's are the only new production speakers). The reason I have so many cabs is that I like different speakers and didnt want to limit myself to just one or two speakers. I also like slants and straights...which is why I have duplicate speakers (or stacks).

 

Good luck with your search.

[atbear]

 

Originally posted by Greazygeo Ive played thru two differnt H30 cabs (not a great sampling for sure), one was a '69 straight front pre rolas and the other a '73 slant. The 69 cab sounded very scooped. I had my 68 slant with GB 20's right beside it and much preferred it. The 73 is really bright, I actually hate that one. The 65's just seemd blah sounding, its been awhile since I tried them. But again I had my 68 cab right next to it and that cab just crushes. My Wizard cabs have RI GB's and they sound great with both the Wizard's and my Marshall's/ Orange.

 

I get that you're a Greenback guy... understandable.

 

But, regarding what you said above... Have you tried your '68 cab with Pre-Rola GBs next to your RI Greenbacks? Would that be about the same difference as the G12-65s vs. your holy grail '68 GB cab? Know what I mean?

[atbear]

Originally posted by psychodave I think you need to try out some different speakers...either at a store or at a friends house. Speakers sound very different to each person and each place. I personally think speakers are the most important part of the system. For example, you could have a crappy amp, but with a good set of speakers, the amp will still sound decent. If you have the best amp, but crappy speakers, the amp will sound crappy. It is that simple. What I am trying to get at is you need to let YOUR ears tell you what is good, not someone elses. I personally love G12T-75's... but I know you dont. That is what makes the world go around Here is a list of my 4X12's from left to right, top to bottom. I use Marshall and Mesa amps. G12T-75 G12H-30 G12-65 G12M-25 G12M-25 G12T-75 G12H-30 G12-65 G12T-75 G12M-25 My least favorite speaker is the G12M-25 and my favorite speaker is the G12H-30. Next is the G12-65. (note that I have all old speakers. The G12T-75's are the only new production speakers). The reason I have so many cabs is that I like different speakers and didnt want to limit myself to just one or two speakers. I also like slants and straights...which is why I have duplicate speakers (or stacks). Good luck with your search.

Wow. I've seen that picture before, but still a wow.

 

I wish I could try out all these speakers, but they are very hard to come by around here. I'd almost have to buy them and have them shipped to me, then try them out and decide.

 

You aren't interested in selling any speakers, are ya?

[Greazygeo]

 

Originally posted by atbear I get that you're a Greenback guy... understandable. But, regarding what you said above... Have you tried your '68 cab with Pre-Rola GBs next to your RI Greenbacks? Would that be about the same difference as the G12-65s vs. your holy grail '68 GB cab? Know what I mean?

Yeah, my '68 cab is sitting right next to the Wizard cabs as I type this...my pre rolas are T1511 20watts with the 55hz 014 bass cones. They are tighter, clearer and go deeper than the RI 25's. The RI are a bit looser and brighter, but have more thinckness. I think the RI's are recording better at the moment. My old ones are kinda scooped sounding but alot of that may be the I5 mic too, need to try a 57 on them. Like Dave posted, different speakers are good for differnt tones, and I agree with him that the speakers/cab are alot more important than people think....

 

here are a few clips not that thats really helpful, but its the same amp / guitar micing just different cabs.

 

Here's the RI GB cab:

RI GB

 

Here's the '68 cab:

 

'68 cab

[atbear]

 

Originally posted by Greazygeo Yeah, my '68 cab is sitting right next to the Wizard cabs as I type this...my pre rolas are T1511 20watts with the 55hz 014 bass cones. They are tighter, clearer and go deeper than the RI 25's. The RI are a bit looser and brighter, but have more thinckness. I think the RI's are recording better at the moment. My old ones are kinda scooped sounding but alot of that may be the I5 mic too, need to try a 57 on them. Like Dave posted, different speakers are good for differnt tones, and I agree with him that the speakers/cab are alot more important than people think.... here are a few clips not that thats really helpful, but its the same amp / guitar micing just different cabs. Here's the RI GB cab: RI GB Here's the '68 cab: '68 cab

 

Man, you get some cool tones! Are those RI GBs broken in in that first clip? How old are those speakers?

 

Your playing is extremely tight... nice work.

 

Drew

[killertone]

 

Originally posted by jonesintbegood I have a Marshall jcm 800 1960A cab from 1983 with G1265's in it and I love it with my Marshall JCM 800 2205. At volume it stays tight but not so sharp as G1275's and smoother, leaning toward a Greenback type sound. Look on e-bay and buy one quick before people realize these were made for 80's Marshall amps.

 

 

+1. I have a 2205 that i run through a Legend 412 cab that has original G12-65's in it. Sounds great.

[atbear]

 

Originally posted by killertone +1. I have a 2205 that i run through a Legend 412 cab that has original G12-65's in it. Sounds great.

 

Ever played it through a Greenback cab? If so, which is brighter and which has more highs? Which is thicker?

 

Glad you like it!

Drew

[potaetoes]

 

Originally posted by atbear Ever played it through a Greenback cab? If so, which is brighter and which has more highs? Which is thicker? Glad you like it! Drew

 

 

greenbacks are WAY brighter, but in a good way. 65s are super thick.

[killertone]

 

Originally posted by atbear Ever played it through a Greenback cab? If so, which is brighter and which has more highs? Which is thicker? Glad you like it! Drew

 

 

Greenbacks sound killer, no doubt. But the 65's sound better loud IMO. I'm not really into speaker breakup. For my tone, GB's sound great until they break up...unless your going for that in which case they kick ass!

[potaetoes]

 

Originally posted by atbear Were the G12-65s still alive, organic and open sounding even though they had less presense and brightness? Did they still have a good attitude about them? I'd love a speaker that I could crank my amp a little louder with and not get blown away, or have ear fatigue. Were the two cabs about the same loudness by volume? Thanks! Drew

 

 

the greenbacks sounded louder... i already said that, maybe i'm not sure what you're getting at.

 

the 65s sound great at healthy volumes. they bloom nicely and get super throaty, and they never seemed harsh to my ears. the greenbacks made my ears ring, but not in a bad way. more chimey attack. at low volumes the 65s are ok, but they do like to have some power through them to get them to really come alive.

[atbear]

 

Originally posted by potaetoes the greenbacks sounded louder... i already said that, maybe i'm not sure what you're getting at. the 65s sound great at healthy volumes. they bloom nicely and get super throaty, and they never seemed harsh to my ears. the greenbacks made my ears ring, but not in a bad way. more chimey attack. at low volumes the 65s are ok, but they do like to have some power through them to get them to really come alive.

 

Yeah... you say they sound louder, rather than are louder. That's the confusion. But I get what you're saying and understand.

 

So, are the 65s bad at low volumes (kinda like some Eminences I've heard)? Or are they fine at lower volumes, and great at high volumes?

 

I really gotta find me some 65s and GBs to try out!

 

And, past that, I've gotta find me some clean 65s to buy! Not an easy find, I'm finding out...

 

Thanks for everything!

Drew

[potaetoes]

Originally posted by atbear Yeah... you say they sound louder, rather than are louder.

 

uh... how things sound is kinda what matters with... you know... sound.

 

and like i said, the 65s are ok at low volumes. neither great nor bad. ok. they are great at high volumes, for sure. one of the best, imo.

[atbear]

Originally posted by potaetoes uh... how things sound is kinda what matters with... you know... sound. and like i said, the 65s are ok at low volumes. neither great nor bad. ok. they are great at high volumes, for sure. one of the best, imo.

Thanks. Like I said... I understand.

 

I appreciate all the help.

 

Drew

[Rich]

Originally posted by atbear Yep, I saw that... However, I'm not sure about their sound/similarity to the G12-65, and I also know they are louder than the G12-65 (which is one reason I like the idea of the G12-65 so much, it's quieter). I've been talking to Scumback speakers, and they seem to have what I want, but at $150 a piece. So, I'm still gonna look for some vintage early 80s G12-65s first. They should be the cheapest of the three, and still probably the best suited for what I want. Thanks.

 

Scumback speakers are built by Weber for the Southbay Ampworks company. I love mine and am extremely satisfied with them.

 

You can keep the greenbacks. I used to like them till I started using the Scumbacks and Webers. My Scumbacks and Webers absolutely kill anything Celestion manufactures in articulation, and overall clarity. Most Celestions sound kind of dark compared to my Scumbacks and Webers.

 

I think however that if whatever gets your sound, then by all means have at it. IE, if you dig Celestions, they are good speakers for you. However, there are speakers that go beyond mediocrity and on to the next level that many players don't consider due to the price. I used to be that guy. The first minute I plugged into my Scumbacks and a/b'd them with the Celestion G12-65'd, I was like:eek: The Celestions sounded like they had a blanket draped over them!

 

IMO, greenbacks=inarticulate, dark and fuzzy sounding compared to Scumback/Webers.

[Rich]

 

Originally posted by doggage5050 eminence tonespotter is their version of the GT-65 http://www.woodys-guitar-world.co.uk/listen.htm clips at the bottom of page

 

 

Emi Tonespotters fart like a giant rubberband being plucked anytime you palm mute a note in the C#-D# registers under higher volumes. Side by side a pair of G12-65's the Tonespotters got a severe pwning. IMO, worst speaker ever made by eminence.