Members mididoc Posted December 9, 2010 Members Share Posted December 9, 2010 I have a Roland Fantom-S that came with a rudimentary sound editor and separate librarian program. My Korg Radias also came with software to do both functions, albeit I have had lots of problems with inconsistent hardware recognition using it. I like the idea of setting things up from my PC, especially PERFORMANCE Combis and such, but find both programs to be rather basic, unattractive and lacking true integration or seamless workflow. I am thinking of upgrading to a more modern hardware keyboard Workstation (Fantom-G, M3, PC3X, Motif XF or similar...), but since I use Sonar for most of my typical workstation work I will primarily be using the 'board in the context of live performance as midi controller with killer sounds on board and some sequencing/sampling ability...so my needs are really for good workflow regarding editing and arranging patches, effects and performances/combis. Is there anyone who really excels at this? I have no experience with the Korg M3 or M50 software, nor the Yamaha Motif, Kurzweil PC3 or any of the other big workstation offerings so I am wondering if any of you own these and have used their software counterparts (where available) and could maybe offer up some thoughts on your experiences, what works well, what doesn't etc. Discuss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shambler Posted December 9, 2010 Members Share Posted December 9, 2010 MotifXS integrates really well with Cubase (runs as a vst). With SONAR it integrates well too, but as a standalone since SONAR does not support vst3.0 http://www.kvraudio.com/db/motif_xs_editor_vst_by_yamaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members piano39 Posted December 9, 2010 Members Share Posted December 9, 2010 I second the Motif.I have a Motif ES- The software editors show up in Sonar. Very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Citizen Klaus Posted December 9, 2010 Members Share Posted December 9, 2010 The M3's software editor is quite effective, once you get the USB drivers installed properly (if you're not the type to normally read manuals -- *raises hand* -- then this procedure will make you start). It's a "live" editor, so changes you make are instantly reflected in the M3's onboard UI. The biggest downside is that it runs at a fixed resolution, so text can be quite tiny at 1920x1080 and beyond. It's available in standalone, VST, and RTAS formats. As for DAW integration, the M3 basically works like a generic controller. The 8 faders and 8 buttons on the mixer panel can each be assigned a CC in external mode, and you can save up to 128 "scenes" at once. If you don't mind switching scenes, you'll never lack for fader control. I haven't, however, found a way to map DAW transport controls to the M3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cydonia Posted December 10, 2010 Members Share Posted December 10, 2010 The PC2 manager freeware is very useful to program any Kurzweil synth of the PC1/PC2 families. So much that it was unnecessary for me to upgrade to the newer PC3. The freeware gives access to the real (and impossible to guess or find on the interface) possibilities of those instruments. Note that the freeware can only edit the programs and not the set-ups (term which in Kurzweil language is equivalent to the Korg's performances). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted December 10, 2010 Members Share Posted December 10, 2010 The Motif family also can work as control surfaces for Sonar with visual feedback in the LCD...this is out of the box with no user programming involved!! I use my Motif ES to control Live and Cubase and it's sweet. I'm surprised Yamaha doesn't advertise this feature more, it's been around since the original Motif (2001?) which is like prehistoric Not sure why other mfrs haven't tried this, esp. Roland since they own Cakewalk. VST-based editors are starting to become more common, although as noted above Yamaha's decision to use VST3 limits you to Cubase today. Virus TI and Roland Gaia can pass audio through their VST apps, which is even cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Citizen Klaus Posted December 10, 2010 Members Share Posted December 10, 2010 Note that the freeware can only edit the programs and not the set-ups (term which in Kurzweil language is equivalent to the Korg's performances). You mean combis? Performances are for Yamahas, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gribs Posted December 10, 2010 Members Share Posted December 10, 2010 How well does Access Virus TI "Total Integration" work as far as running as a plugin sound generator from a DAW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted December 10, 2010 Members Share Posted December 10, 2010 How well does Access Virus TI "Total Integration" work as far as running as a plugin sound generator from a DAW? I owned a Virus Snow for a while and it worked perfectly for me. Low latency, ability to automate controls and up to three independent stereo mixes (or two mixes plus a stereo audio in). No glitching or hanging. The ability to keep all the hardware settings inside a DAW project is too cool. Too bad more mfrs have not tried to do this. Of course, if you go to the Access website and check the user forums you will find people having endless issues with latency, etc. I ran it inside both Cubase AI4 and Live 7 with no issues. I also updated to the latest OS which cmae out a day before I bought the Snow and no issues with it, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mididoc Posted December 10, 2010 Author Members Share Posted December 10, 2010 Thanks for all of the great responses! The Virus and other similar offerings sound interesting, specifically running as a VST inside a host, I wish the Radias could do that! But I have enough softsynths already, plus the Radias and some other hardware. My main interest is in full-blown workstations (Fantom X or G, Motif ES, XS or XF, PC3x, Triton/M3/M50 etc.) as that is what I intend on upgrading to. I really need the live/stage functionality including great sounds, multi-timbral capability with high polyphony, decent realtime controllers, split/layer zoning plus some sequence playback/sampling etc. My Fantom-S does pretty good but it's old and I'm hoping the software had improved in the new models. Can ANY of these boards act as a VST and offer sound generation and/or editor/librarian functions from the PC either standalone or running inside a host? I understand so far that the Motif line and the Korgs have some capability here (is Karma easier to setup/manipulate on a PC if I should get an M3 or M50?) How about Roland or Kurzweil, do they offer any software and if so, how is it? You guys are a great resource, I'm looking forward to some more responses, thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mididoc Posted December 10, 2010 Author Members Share Posted December 10, 2010 Just found a video online that demonstrates the PC3 editor - holy crap that looks nice! And that board is way powerful. No mention though of integration to DAWs nor for passing audio via USB. Also researched a bit and see where the Fantom-G has en editor for it, but again don't know about DAW integration or passing audio (like the GAIA does) via USB. Any one have more detail about either of these products? Can their engines be accessed like a VST? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted December 13, 2010 Members Share Posted December 13, 2010 is Karma easier to setup/manipulate on a PC if I should get an M3 or M50? No Karma on the M50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mididoc Posted December 13, 2010 Author Members Share Posted December 13, 2010 Hmm, I was under the impression that the M50 does not have Karma on-board - but can interface with it running as software on a PC. Anyhow, I think the build quality has put me off both the M50 and the M3. I'm probably more interested in what may be the successor flagship from Korg - maybe NAMM 2011 will bring news... In the meantime I will investigate the Motif XS and XF more as they sound like they may have the best integration going to date. I'm still interested in the Fantom-G and Kurweil PC3 orPC3x as well - anyone who has experience with them care to comment more about these two pieces? Thanks for all of the great responses, hoping to hear more about this overlooked aspect of modern workstations as I feel deeper integration is a growing trend and hopefully SOMEONE will just knock us out with how well their board works both with and without a PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted December 13, 2010 Members Share Posted December 13, 2010 Hmm, I was under the impression that the M50 does not have Karma on-board - but can interface with it running as software on a PC. That is correct...so I guess asking is it "easier" to use on a PC is "yes" because it's pretty to hard to use without one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mididoc Posted December 13, 2010 Author Members Share Posted December 13, 2010 That is correct...so I guess asking is it "easier" to use on a PC is "yes" because it's pretty to hard to use without one Yeah I guess I should have aimed that one at the M3 alone ;-). Thanks again for your help MF, I'm leaning hard towards a Motif now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChipCurtis Posted December 13, 2010 Members Share Posted December 13, 2010 When I think of software/hardware integration I'm thinking more along the lines of something like a Neko or Receptor, less along the lines of integrating a proprietary synth architecture into a DAW. Neko or Receptor gives you the ultimate flexibility in what kind of software you want to run on it. In the modern DAW age, proprietary workstations are completely obsolete in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members poserp Posted December 14, 2010 Members Share Posted December 14, 2010 I'm still interested in the Fantom-G and Kurweil PC3 orPC3x as well - anyone who has experience with them care to comment more about these two pieces? My only keyboard is a Kurzweil PC361. I don't really use a DAW much (I use Record, but I use it for recording the PC3, as opposed to running the PC3 along with a bunch of midi stuff on the computer), but the sounds are really nice and the programming/editing is top notch. I've tried the desktop editor a few times but I don't really like it, I prefer to use the PC3's screen as I feel like I can tweak stuff a lot faster that way. The PC3 is currently awaiting a new OS (I'm a beta tester), and there will be a new version of the desktop editor to go along with it. I haven't tried the new version of the editor with the beta OS. FYI, the current editor only runs standalone. So, if you want to rely on the computer to control the synth it's probably not your best choice. That being said, it kills in all other departments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members InsideLookinOut Posted December 15, 2010 Members Share Posted December 15, 2010 I use the Openlabs Miko live and in my home recording space. It's been invaluable to both. At home I use Cubase to record on it. It's loaded with stuff like Lounge Lizard, Atmosphere, Fm7, Minimonsta, Jupiter 8v, Organized Trio, Opx, Korg analog and digital collections and too many more to mention. These are mainly used for live performances with my band. My vintage boards never leave home so this the best solution for me to get close to those sounds live. It's been very stable for me thus far. It's got a dual core processor, 2GB of RAM, an 80 and 250 GB hd. Not spectacular by todays standards, but I've had the Miko since 2006 and really haven't felt the need to upgrade yet. It has Karsyn which is a very flexible rack. I have different setups for different sets. It's so convenient to have each song ready to go with layers and all at the touch of a button! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted December 15, 2010 Members Share Posted December 15, 2010 I'll sign off by saying I don't consider Open Labs, Receptor or V-Machine true hardware-software integration because they are just customized PCs running music software. That's a lot different than something like a Virus TI which is a standalone hardware synth that also is a VSTi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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