Members Babis Posted November 23, 2006 Members Share Posted November 23, 2006 I just had I live gig last night(you can see my gear below)Although I had a quite cutting tone in my cabinet the sound engineer told me that through the PA(micing with a SM57) I had cut many frequencies and the sound was kinda muddy and lacked definition.When I placed my ear just next to the speakers I notice a muddy and undefined sound indeed but when I step back a little it sound really ok to me. What happend exactly and why this difference?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Babis Posted November 23, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2006 Nobody?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nastyn8 Posted November 23, 2006 Members Share Posted November 23, 2006 I'm not sure why that happens when you back your ear away a little bit, but I'm pretty sure it has a lot to do with your ear's ability to decipher things at really high decibel levels. When I have my amp really loud, I can have my ear a couple feet away and it doesn't sound muddy at all, but when I put it u close, everything kinda mushes together. Like I said, I think it's due to the fact that our ears can only take so much before the frequencies blend together because the ear-drum can't take the vibrations. Quality Dynamic mics on the other hand are designed to excel with very high decibel levels, so that mushing together most likely won't happen with a good mic up close. A mic like the SM57 is very picky about placement also. It could be that it isn't your amp's fault at all, just the sound guy didn't know how to position the SM57 correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Babis Posted November 23, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2006 It's just like your description.The problem is how is possible to have the same sound I hear from my cabinet on the PA?Correct mic position?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nastyn8 Posted November 23, 2006 Members Share Posted November 23, 2006 yep, welcome to the art of mic placement Choosing the right mic is also key. you'd be surprised how much of a difference simply moving the mic a half inch will make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Babis Posted November 23, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2006 Isn't SM57 good for this stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nastyn8 Posted November 23, 2006 Members Share Posted November 23, 2006 yeah they are very popular for high gain applications. They tend to be pretty bright mics by nature though, which means that if your rig is pretty bright already it might become a little overbearing. It doesn't sound like that's your problem though. It sounds more like you need to move the mic a little closer to the middle of the cone. Also try slanting the mic at like a 45 degree angle towards the inside of the cone. That might help you get some more definition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Babis Posted November 23, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2006 Ok thanks really much!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted November 23, 2006 Members Share Posted November 23, 2006 what happened was the sound man pointed out your bad tone. dial it in so it sounds good right in front of the speaker, because 20 feet away, that's what everyone will be hearing anyway... especially if it's mic'd, what the mic hears is what everyone will hear.. it doesn't matter what it sounds like to you, standing 4 feet away with your head 4 feet above the speakers - make it sound good straight in front to the mic and it'll sound good in the monitors, in the PA, and everywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Babis Posted November 23, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2006 Oh and when I'm tweaking my soundd I should do it by standing a little away right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Babis Posted November 23, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2006 Originally posted by potaetoes what happened was the sound man pointed out your bad tone. dial it in so it sounds good right in front of the speaker, because 20 feet away, that's what everyone will be hearing anyway... especially if it's mic'd, what the mic hears is what everyone will hear.. it doesn't matter what it sounds like to you, standing 4 feet away with your head 4 feet above the speakers - make it sound good straight in front to the mic and it'll sound good in the monitors, in the PA, and everywhere else. Yeah but just in front of the speakers it sound mushy and undefined no matter what settings I have.How should I know that the tones ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted November 23, 2006 Members Share Posted November 23, 2006 Originally posted by Babis Oh and when I'm tweaking my soundd I should do it by standing a little away right?? do it with your head right in front of the speakers, or stand back as far as your cable will let you so you're well within the "beam" of the speakers. if possible, listen to it with a mic and headphones while you're tweaking it. i've found that the "art" of mic placement is much less important when an amp is dialed in properly, at least with SM57s. when an amp is dialed right, you can pretty much stick a 57 anywhere around the middle and get good results. on the other hand, if you're having a hard time finding a good spot with a 57, that's a pretty big indicator that some knobs need to be turned on the amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted November 23, 2006 Members Share Posted November 23, 2006 Originally posted by Babis Yeah but just in front of the speakers it sound mushy and undefined no matter what settings I have.How should I know that the tones ok? don't get mad... but that's kinda how all triple XXXs sound to me remember the gain knob when you're dialing things in. those amps have so much gain it's easy to use way too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Babis Posted November 23, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2006 Ok whatever.Your opinion is respected;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Babis Posted November 24, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2006 A couple of hours ago I tried a JCM2000 on a 1960 Marshall cabinet.I noticed the same thing like I described above.I went 3-4 feet away and I was hearing the same tone.When I was in 45 deggres angle with the cabinet it was quite good but facing it straight ahead tone sucked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mamberg Posted November 24, 2006 Members Share Posted November 24, 2006 ice pickiness? maybe you need beam blockers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Babis Posted November 24, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2006 :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mamberg Posted November 24, 2006 Members Share Posted November 24, 2006 Originally posted by Babis :confused: I would say search, but since you can't here........... Ice pick tone is when the main 'beam' of your speakers has an abundance of treble compared to 'off axis' listening. Maybe you are setting up your tone while listening in this 'beam', causing you to overly cut a bunch of treble/mid frequencies. That would cause your off axis sound to be overly muddy, possibly where the mic was placed. Beam blockers mount in front of your speakers and block this ice pick projection, evening out your sound from all angles. This may let you boost your mids back up, and get rid of the mud. It's a possibility. Try a google search for Beam blockers and you will find out more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Babis Posted November 24, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2006 So you say that the angled sound is a "wrong" one to deal with?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mamberg Posted November 26, 2006 Members Share Posted November 26, 2006 yeah, you want to mic the sound that is the same as you are listening to when you set your tone controls. If you are setting your tone in one part of the 'beam', and mic'ing another, of course it will sound bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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