Members McHale Posted November 17, 2009 Members Share Posted November 17, 2009 the point of the demo was to point out when you play chords in the upper couple of octaves the noise it makes. It was not for accuracy or correct organ settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundwave106 Posted November 17, 2009 Members Share Posted November 17, 2009 I just left the reverb on so it wasn't TOO dry. That noise is on EVERY organ patch, whether playing a clean sound or a dirty sound. The problem is, I can't (personally) rule out the reverb being the problem without hearing the patch without the reverb. IMHO I've encountered *far* more overtone problems in reverbs than synthesizers. It's not even necessarily aliasing, sometimes the reverb algorithm just produces some bad reflective overtones that you have to watch out for. But assuming the 'verb *isn't* the problem (and you know that for sure , it's just that I don't), I can actually buy that a modeled synth would have more aliasing problems than a PCM synth does. Modeled sources are programmed, and if the programmer forgets to filter out any frequency past the Nyquist when designing the B3's additive algorithm, aliasing could happen I suppose. A good way for testing for this is to play a Hammond organ patch *only* using the 8' drawbar (0 on the rest). Then try only the 16' drawbar. See if the aliasing is reduced in either case. Aliasing may be strictly limited to, say, the 1' bar and stuff around that register. I would also try a patch with only the pure drawbars (16',8',4',2',1') to see if the fifth or major third harmonic is contributing to the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted November 17, 2009 Members Share Posted November 17, 2009 A good way for testing for this is to play a Hammond organ patch *only* using the 8' drawbar (0 on the rest). Then try only the 16' drawbar. See if the aliasing is reduced in either case. Aliasing may be strictly limited to, say, the 1' bar and stuff around that register. I would also try a patch with only the pure drawbars (16',8',4',2',1') to see if the fifth or major third harmonic is contributing to the problem. actually did this last night. I get that noise when using *ANY* drawbar by itself. When you add more Drawbars, it just gets worse. SO: 800000000 bad 080000000 bad 008000000 bad etc. etc. When you go 888800000 OUCH bad 888888888 OMG BAD Again, all patches have this issue regardless of the effects/settings. Your logic makes sense though about the additive algorithm, and if Korg would update the code, they could actually fix it. Sad thing is, we both know they won't. Thanks for the info, very informative. It's nice to know there are smart people on this forum like yourself to help ignorant people like myself. -Mc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bdub Posted November 19, 2009 Members Share Posted November 19, 2009 Found an mp3 from a drummer audition and cut out a section where the organ can be heard pretty clearly. CX-3 Foreplay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerrythek Posted November 19, 2009 Members Share Posted November 19, 2009 Hey McHale: Don't cry BS - the CX3 is ABSOLUTELY modeled, no PCM/samples in the engine whatsoever. I can hear your issue, it is some harmonic interaction, but not related to PCM, loops etc. We have sold tons of product and have it used by many top players, so not everyone is bothered by this. Obviously your mileage varies and I respect that. Sorry to have not answered at KF, I've been travelling and can quickly lose sight of threads. Anyway - we would never market a product as having a technology that it doesn't have... we're not that type of company or people. regards, Jerry Korg Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted November 19, 2009 Members Share Posted November 19, 2009 I didn't understand how modeling could cause that issue to be honest but soundwave's description makes sense so I now better understand the issue from a modeling vs. sampling standpoint. I'm so used to modeling being equated with "a close to perfect representation" of whatever it's supposed to be emulating - analog, piano, organ, whatever. I appreciate your response and I agree that Korg doesn't do shady stuff like that. Ten years ago, modeling as we know it today wasn't really all the rage and the intended definition could have meant "we went to great lengths to make our CX-3 sound like a B3 or the old CX-3 or whatever" and while the word would be technically appropriate, wouldn't mean "modeling" as we know it today. I may be a vocal critic now and then, but you gained my trust more than 10 years ago so if you say it is, I believe it is. The overtone noise or whatever it is aside, the CX-3 is just a phenomenal organ. The Leslie effect is superb and I can really tell a difference between using it and the Triton or M3 for the same sounds. It's been a long time since there's been an update on the CX-3 OS. I'm assuming that future development is dead for it? Thanks for the response. Always appreciated... -Mc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted November 19, 2009 Members Share Posted November 19, 2009 Found an mp3 from a drummer audition and cut out a section where the organ can be heard pretty clearly. CX-3 Foreplay Out of curiosity, what amp/pa were you playing that through? I don't use Keyboard amps and use a small PA for my personal monitor and play through the house PA. With a keyboard amp, it's frequency range isn't as great and may be trimmed out by default. Thanks for taking the time to post the clip. Love the sound you get out of your CX-3. -Mc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bdub Posted November 19, 2009 Members Share Posted November 19, 2009 Out of curiosity, what amp/pa were you playing that through? I don't use Keyboard amps and use a small PA for my personal monitor and play through the house PA. With a keyboard amp, it's frequency range isn't as great and may be trimmed out by default. Thanks for taking the time to post the clip. Love the sound you get out of your CX-3.-Mc I don't use keyboard amps either...they're heavy and there's no need to lug them around if you're playing in a band that has a decent stereo PA. This particular PA belongs to a bassist friend of mine. I know the speakers are Yamahas but I don't know what the amplifier is (maybe Crown?). The recording was taken in the room with with a Sony stereo mic running into a Boss MicroBR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kingvavy Posted February 21, 2010 Members Share Posted February 21, 2010 hi. im seeing some good deals on vintage ones. i dont care about the lack of presets or whatever so much. but, soundwise, reliabilty, operational ease or whatever...what are your thoughts on the vintage ones? i may pull teh trigger on one soon. what shortcomings should i be aware of? neither of them sound like a b-3/c-3/a-100 etc. Having said that, the vintage model has a really warm, analog character that sounds great in a garage rock setting. IMO the old one has more character wheras the new one is just one of many cold, digital attempts. However, the leslie sim on the new one is pretty good, and adding a speakeasy preamp changes things a bit in terms of coldness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GurArch Posted May 26, 2013 Members Share Posted May 26, 2013 @Jerrythek - Even though the samples linked to are gone - I think I know what he is talking about. Many cheap keyboards and synths have this fenomena.As I see it - it's about having too few divider frequencies - pitch is off by too much from a tempered scale.So taking a simple threenote chord - I->III-V - in highest octaves gets you an interference that is horrible.I have CX-3 v2 with latest firmware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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