VII chords-I don't know where they live

[windmill]

Could anyone help with a bit of theory please?

 

Where do VII chords fit in?

 

In a scale the major chords have relative minors eg I - VIm.

 

what relationship does the VII chor have with the others?

Can it substitute for another chord in the scale?

 

So, where do the VII chords fit in a chord progression?

 

Its got me buggered.

[djelf]

 

Originally posted by windmill Could anyone help with a bit of theory please? Where do VII chords fit in? In a scale the major chords have relative minors eg I - VIm. what relationship does the VII chor have with the others? Can it substitute for another chord in the scale? So, where do the VII chords fit in a chord progression? Its got me buggered.

 

 

if you play "precisely" in major, your seventh will be diminished (root, min3rd, flat 5th). It pulls strongly to the I chord. I'm sureothers will expand on the possibilities, I just feel them out and put it where it sounds like what is happening

[fingerpicker]

You can substitute a diminished chord for a V chord.

 

You can also use a diminished chord as a passing chord,

Example:

 

C-F7-f#o-G7-C

[JackSonic]

I read somewhere that the diminished chord (VII) can be used to modulate to a different key, but I don't know if it has to be in the form of a 7th

[fritzl]

A VII chord has the same notes as a 9 chord a fifth higher (fourth lower) chord without the root and can often be used as a substitution.

 

Using voicings around the third fret with roots on the fifth string for C and the fourth string for E:

 

Em7b5 = E Bb D G (1 b5 m7 m3)

 

C9 = C E Bb D G (1 3 m7 9 5)

 

I recommend "Chord Chemistry" by Ted Greene for some hardcore info on chord subs, inversions, and voicings.

 

Fritz

[fritzl]

I should have said "diminished 7" chords rather than just "VII" chords in my last post.

 

FL

[windmill]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

One thing that loses me completely is where or when you use or why (theory alert !) you can use it in a I-VII progression ,of course it may be because it sounds good or is there another reason?

Or aren't i paying attention ?

 

thanks again

[SirGarrote]

In major, the VII chord is almost always used as a passing chord arriving at I. In minor, however, the VII is often the destination. This is due to the VII being major in a minor scale, not diminished. Needless to say, a major chord is MUCH more stable than a diminished I highly recommend picking up a book on harmony. Everything you need to know will be in there....except the creativity of course

 

-Garrett

[cool_E]

I wrote a lead riff as a short instrumental for a song I'm

working on. The song is basically 2 chords, G & F over a

really cool Latin rhythm groove.

 

Anyway, I wrote the line then created triads in an attempt

to create harmonies. I created these by simply transposing

the original line up a 3rd & 5th and adding the result to the

original. What I got was G, F, Em, Dm, C, Bdim. Cool, huh!

These 'chords' just magically appeared as I built off the

solo melody line.