Fighting Songwriting.. Are you a solo artist??

[Electricview]

obscure topic here.. posted a similar one in the guitar forum but then i found this forum so i'll expand..

 

How many of you out there are solo writers.. maybe you just have a guitar and you write some lyrics and a few guitar riff's and maybe use a computer drum machine or something.. (thats what i'm doing)... or use a bass or whatever.. I'm just curious.. I was in a band before when my good friend the dummer invited me to join.. So i know its easier to write when you have people around you to help encourage or give idea's off your riff's or what not..

 

Being bandless for quite a while now, I've tried to write stuff on my own.. I am often finding that i'm never satisfied with anything i write anymore.. One song i wrote needed a vocal range i couldn't even dream of reaching.. i didnt realize this untill i actually tried to sing it and found i couldn't.. pissed me off so much becusae i felt like my range was nothing cuz i could only sing 2 notes or something and i had thought the song would be cool back then....

Then another time, i start to write a little riff.. and I get into a chorus for a song from that riff and start working on the verse which is just the same old plain chords i allways do.. then i start thinking up some lyrics, and just sounds plain and like my usual crap.. and the next day i listen to the recordings i've done.. its lost its luster.. i feel like its done before its even finished.. I guess its just overwhelming discouragement.. I dont expect to write hit songs or anything, but something that i can geniunly feely proud of would be nice, or at least feel that it has evolved and isn't so plain/same old style.. Does anyone else share similar feelings or experiences? I guess its just basically a very all around discouragement..

 

I only mentioned the band thing becuase to me it seems that when you have a group of guys around with instruments, and you start some riff. someone might say "oh hey! let me do this while you do that" then your mind, it kind of resets and you can add something even cooler.. But without that it seems so much harder to write by ones self.. Just curious who else might relate?

 

Course i'm sure i'll get the "why not join a band then" I have posted add thingies on many 'meet-musicians-sites' never got one thing back.. i guess there's just too many punk or heavy metal or whatever type bands here that just dont have the same ideals that i do for music...

 

Anyways a long post that i dont expect too many people to take the time to read, but if anyone replies, I guess i'll be surprised.. I cant imagine too many others have this problem..

[SomeGuyNamedRob]

I've been a solo project for the better part of 3 years.

 

At one point, about a year or so ago, I found myself in a similar position - miserable with my writing, and unable to enjoy my work. I decided that the best thing to do was to have a break from writing, and get into listening to as much music as possible from any genre from all over the world.

 

What that did was open my mind to new sounds, and got me thinking about how I could use these sounds along with the sounds I was used to using. I also made the digital leap and got into sampling, and started using more cut-and-paste techniques to create song frameworks that I could play or sing over - mixing genres as much as possible to see how far I could go.

 

I've been into my experimental phase for about a year now, and I feel like I'm just getting started in terms of seeing what I can do as a songwriter. Even when I write "normal" stuff, like a rock or pop tune, I can hear extra parts in my head that would make the song sound a little different - an extra little edge - that keeps my attention and keeps me fired up.

[WattsUrizen]

Although I'm in a band, I'm a solo composer: I am solely responsible for the music we play. I like to think that it's not because I'm an arsehole (I am a classical musician, ie. perfectionist), just that I've got the vision of what the music is. People tell me a band is a democratic thing, but the other guys are extremely happy to play what I write.

 

Of course, they'll quite often have their own little ideas they come up with while improvising. But if I don't like it I say,'OUT!'.

 

But seriously, I find that as a solo composer I'm much more able to achieve my vision. It's not that the other guys aren't valuable in their opinions and talent, just that my vision is really that.

 

I know it sounds quite arrogant, but that's just the way my band works. And my bandmates haven't left, so they must enjoy it...

 

I like having a band to bounce around initial ideas. But all the laborius details in the songcraft are my responsibility. Which is really how I like it.

[electricmel]

I am going through a similar dilema except for the fac that I am unhappy with my band and would prefer to work on solo stuff (or form a new band).

 

I think mt song s are coming along excellently but the guys in the band have a tough time "getting it". I'm tired of my guitar player telling me he wants a tone like "Mick Mars" from Motely Crue (that one really gets my stomach churning) and playing Led Zeppelin or Rush licks during every break.

 

I'm tired of our mute bass player who can't add ANYTHING to the musical conversation and takes a month to figure out the feel of a riff.

 

And I am tired of having to fire a drummer for being a total prick, having to search and try out drummers for three months and having a cool guy drummer but not good enough.

 

This is really bothering the {censored} out of me. Maybe it's time to move on.

 

Oh yeah, what was the topic???

 

Right - try writing lyrics first, then the music.

- Try coming up with interesting vocal melody lines that counter the rythym of the song (which usually requires recording a ryhtym track)

- and try writing simple things, one or two interesting chord changes, to get you going toward the right path.

[cool_E]

I have to agree that for the most part having one person

with the artistic vision and creative authority will work

best. There are exceptions of course.

 

I do virtually all the writing in my project although I

would like to do more co-writing. I find what works

best is to get the major song elements defined and

then use the creativity of others to improve or add

to what's there. In other words, I let my lead guitar

player have freedom to put what he wants (within

bounds) into the song. This works well because the

people who participate feel like they are contributing

(and they really are) but I still have control over the

sound.

 

I think in a "democratic" system you are bound to come

to places where there is disagreement and no-one will

back down. Then you enter the death spiral...

[Electricview]

Well not to be confusing, i like having the power to decide what needs to stay or go.. but i guess i just find it overwhelming at times working at different parts of the song.. and i think maybe the fact that i dont have any one elses magical touch adding to the song just sometimes doesnt fill it out completely.. alot of great songwriters along the years have written most of the songs themselfs but often times the drummer or maybe a bass guitarist adds enough to just make it that much better.. for isntance.. red hot chili's.. i think anthony writes most of the songs, but with flea's kick ass bass lines it just adds that much more, imagine some other "less" talented bass guitarist? or the smashing pumpkins.. billy wrote or writes almost all of the guitars and vocals for the songs.. but he doesnt touch the drums.. that's jimmy chamberlians area' and he's amazing at what he does.. he adds that much more magic to the songs.. but i think when 1 guy tries to do it all.. maybe it just doesnt reach that point that it does when you have other talented musicians lending thoughts and idea's..

 

electricmel (nice name )- Your situation seems like the thing i want to avoid if i ever tried to look for band members.. finding people who feel the same you do, and aren't over obsessive about being someone else.. or having talent enough to keep up with the band.. When i was in my band our drummer never had any problem keeping up.. but we had a lead singer who idolized jim morrison.. sometimes it got on our nerves big time.. he dressed like him, sang like him.. even did moves jim morrison did on stage!!...

 

Sometimes being solo can have its advantages but for me right now it just seems more frustrating then anything else.

[mojowilder]

i'd say just keep working at it...and Rob's advice on just listening to a diversityof material is right on....after some time, you'll start to hear other parts in your head, even if all you have is an acoustic gutar and a voice...don't worry about vocal limitations....Kriss Krisstofferson wrote "me and bobby mcgee" for chrissakes....he can't sing worth a {censored}! (i love the dude bythe way) songwriting is not about vocal abiltily or even proficency on a musical intstrument...it's about crafting TUNES ....read a lot of poetry listen to rhythms of words, of city sidewalks, or whatever catches you...everything in life has a rhythm and a poetry, and writing a song is about catching a little slice of that in a way that makes others feel something. remember, too, Beetohven was deaf towards the end of his life...but he heard symphonies inside his head....

and...consider yourself LUCKY that you were ever able to TRULY collaborate with someone in song composition...I think its extremely difficult. I've played with a lot of very talented musicians and haven't liked how they played my songs...but that's probably becasue I'm an isolated, arrogant, no talent wannabe {censored}forbrains

[Greenshoe]

Yes...keep working at it. I find it ebbs and flows - some days are good, some days are bad. If you're having a bad day writing-wise, don't force it, but don't give up entirely. Try at it tomorrow, next week - unless you're a professional songwriter with a deadline, that is! I've found that writing by yourself is no better or worse than collaborating with band members - it's just different.

 

I'm going at it solo now for the first time, both in terms of writing and performing, although I won't quit my day job anytime soon. It's nervewracking, frustrating and liberating all at once. I've only recently gotten back into writing and performing in the past few months, after having not touched an instrument for over 5-6 years since graduating from college. At first I really regretted not playing any music for that long, but it seems to have given me the chance to really try out other non-artistic things, travel and live in different countries, meet people I would not have otherwise, and most importantly learn to not take myself too seriously. I've been playing music for as long as I could remember (mother a music instructor), and after getting back into it, I realized that music and writing are what make me tick after all.

 

To me, it doesn't really matter anymore if I get paid or not for the music, whether people like my stuff or not or even whether I'm satisfied with my stuff or not - although having all or any of these would be a bonus. All that matters is that I enjoy the process of writing, recording and performing.

[electricmel]

I see what you are saying, unlike these other egomaniacal monsters:D ...

 

There are chemical sparks that happen when you are laying a general framework of a song down with a band or even just a writing partner.

 

For instance - I had a song that I thought was GREAT, but simple- A to G to F then a little pre-chorus break of A to E To C to D. I had all the changes and the arrangement was done. But when we started jamming it, the guitarist came up with an amazing fill that I never would have "thunk" up.

 

When writing alone, a way to expand an idea is to constantly record yourself then PLAY WITH YOURSELF!!Ha

 

Sing a scratch vocal and play "sketch" chords and riffs into a 4 track, then play it back and write melodies, fills, better vocal melodies...It really helps shape a song if you feel it needs it. The beauty of constructing songs like this is if you don't want a guitar solo - you don't have to argue w/ anyone!

 

You can buy very good cassette 4 or 8 tracks for cheap new or used on e-bay and know they make tiny little digital boxes that are light years ahead for around $300. Depends on what you are most comfortable with.

[IAmTheStrings]

Creatively I've been in the same boat for the last few years and BANDLESS for about 7 years. I have always worked better when I have someone I can partner with.

 

I've maybe finished 2 or 3 songs in as many years. I wouldn't have even gotten that far though if I hadn't stayed involved in the music scene some way. I have a guy I partner with at open mics occasionally (we accompany one another on original tunes), and I do volunteer set-up at a folk concert series (that benefits a church) once a month. This way I keep meeting people who are potential writing or playing partners. It's not hardcore networking or anything, it's just a way to have some fun, meet new people and hear some good music. The nice thing about the FOLK scene is that much of the audience is VERY music oriented compared to say, a crowd in a Sports bar where a cover band is playing top-40 tunes.

 

I played mostly in country and rock bands (both cover and all original projects) over a period of about 11 years (between about 1979 and 1990). I blew off music pretty much up to about 95 and took another stab at it with a group of guys for about 6 months doing original rock. We only ever made it out of the basement once in that time to play a house party. It dawned on me that none of us were really having any fun (with all the usual conflicts and THEN some) so I let it go again.

 

I hope to be involved creatively again some day on a consistent basis with someone or some group of people but if it doesn't happen I'm not going to worry about. If it does, fine. I think creative slumps or disinterest come with age ALONG WITH the realities of being an amateur musician once you've been at it for a few years. You've just got to find the place that allows you to enjoy music again whether you're the writer/player or just listening to someone else's music.

 

Running into old bandmates the conversation inevitabley gets to the "we should hook up again and jam" part. In the last 7-odd years not ONE of these meetings actually resulted in a get-together even when I made an effort to follow up these chance meetings with phone calls and trying to make arrangements to meet. I don't particularly believe in destiny but it seems like some things just weren't meant to happen. Sometimes no matter how hard you try you have to accept that you CAN'T always make things happen.

[llmonty]

Great post. My experience is an amalgamation of what others have written. Was in bands for years, solo now for 8. In bands I usually wrote 75% of the music, but I was fortunate to have someone else in the band to write lyrics/sing and help hone ideas. Of course, a good drummer too really can shape a song.

 

I have taken a painful route of trying my hand at lyric writing. This has turned out to way better than I expected, after a rough start, and feel I have potential here. I also felt the need to sing. Partially our of necessity, partly b/c I never feel songs are 'done' unless there are vocals (w/ expections), and partly because music i have listened to over the past 8 years has created that drive. I have been taking singing lessons for about 8 months, and it is PAINFUL -- horrible self doubt with glimmers of satisfaction. I'm taking my lumps.

 

I also compose music - have done some film work, music for a dance group, string ensembles, more 'arty' instrumental guitar - in addition to a singer/songwriter/band type thing.

 

What I have found I miss most is having a collaborator. Someone who could help with lyrics/singing/arranging. Someone to bounce ideas off of, share singing duties, and in general, just drive pieces to completion. The other thing I miss is a drummer. I have gotten into sampling/field recording/softsynths etc. and while I am learning, I still am not very good at laying beats down. Knowing which instrument goes where on what beat. I hope to play with a drummer soon though to work on this.

 

Technology is great, and recording on computer has taught me alot about composition and creativity.

 

And the beat goes on.

 

BTW my sig. has some early examples of my 1 man band musings.

 

[Greenshoe]

Originally posted by llmonty Great post. My experience is an amalgamation of what others have written. Was in bands for years, solo now for 8. In bands I usually wrote 75% of the music, but I was fortunate to have someone else in the band to write lyrics/sing and help hone ideas. Of course, a good drummer too really can shape a song. I have taken a painful route of trying my hand at lyric writing. This has turned out to way better than I expected, after a rough start, and feel I have potential here. I also felt the need to sing. Partially our of necessity, partly b/c I never feel songs are 'done' unless there are vocals (w/ expections), and partly because music i have listened to over the past 8 years has created that drive. I have been taking singing lessons for about 8 months, and it is PAINFUL -- horrible self doubt with glimmers of satisfaction. I'm taking my lumps. I also compose music - have done some film work, music for a dance group, string ensembles, more 'arty' instrumental guitar - in addition to a singer/songwriter/band type thing. What I have found I miss most is having a collaborator. Someone who could help with lyrics/singing/arranging. Someone to bounce ideas off of, share singing duties, and in general, just drive pieces to completion. The other thing I miss is a drummer. I have gotten into sampling/field recording/softsynths etc. and while I am learning, I still am not very good at laying beats down. Knowing which instrument goes where on what beat. I hope to play with a drummer soon though to work on this. Technology is great, and recording on computer has taught me alot about composition and creativity. And the beat goes on. BTW my sig. has some early examples of my 1 man band musings.

 

Speaking of singing lessons, I've found that having a great vocal coach is a world of difference - someone who not only gives lessons, but believes in your music/potential that he/she will really push you. At least for me, I started off taking lessons about six months ago, with only the expectation of getting pointers...she's ended up becoming almost like a taskmaster of sorts, which really forces me to have discipline to complete songs, get gigs, make demos - just when I think I've improved or gotten somewhere, she'll push me further to the next level...which is great.

[JackSonic]

I'm in the same boat (loop my drums, play bass & guitar, sing... the whole gig), but have written all my songs within my vocal range.

 

if you can't sing, then don't. Writing songs w/lyrics is a huge extra burden for a solo artist, anyhow. A solution would be to take all the vocal melodies and just record them as instrumentals (although, since you've already spent all that time on the lyrics, you might just want to go ahead and try the best you can to sing them anyway).

 

sounds like you have a bit of an infiriority complex. You would be better off in a band in that you'de get the encouragement you obviously need and you'd lessen much of the work load you (and all solo musicians/recording engineers/producers) have placed on yourself.

 

I say go ahead and record all your stuff all the way through ("good" or not) and use the material as a demo for future band mates. In the process, you'll also learn about recording (which may be an invaluable asset to future band mates).

[llmonty]

Greenshoe -- you are so right. My current teacher is a friend I've had for 6 years. It has been great, and better than the 4 person group lesson I was taking at the local U. She is very good at mixing the truth/criticism with praise. And she has the uncanny knack for being able to tell me what to change phycially to sound different. That is the hardest part - seeing your voice as an instrument. It is hard to visualize, and there is so much going on (support, posture, mouth, throat and intangibles like placement) that it is really strange. I am used to an instrument where you can see what you need to play and then play it.

 

Also, I have had the chance to work on my own songs and songs I want to cover. Totally invaluable, but at this stage, more painful than not

 

I am bummed though b/c she just told me she is moving out of the city and state in 4 weeks.

[llmonty]

Jacksonic --

 

Interestingly, I have found that the lyric writing and forming of the melody go together. If I think that there should be lyrics I find I can't write a melody line without some sketch of lyrics. Didn't thing this would be the case when I started, but it is another thing I discovered trying to write everything.

[Forsythia]

i'm starting on a solo career i guess you could say - i'm writing more on my own than i ever have done before, and i totally see what you mean about it being harder - it seems easier when there is a whole band to contribute to the song, but i find it much more satisfying to complete one on my own - yeah, it's hard work and there are times when you aren't happy with it but in the end it's YOURS.. i sometimes find that i'm not happy with my stuff either but i always think that someone out there WILL love it - most of the songs i wrote in my band i didn't like but they were popular with the crowds - i think every band and artist goes through that at some point.... i don't think anyone ever writes a song and thinks it's the most wonderful thing they've ever heard.... unless their name is Noel or Liam Gallagher .....

anyway, enough of my none-sensical ramblings...

[IAmTheStrings]

SPEAKING of SINGING (or lack thereof) - if you're not a naturally gifted singer with a wide range and STILL want to sing AND write, then try writing with your voice in mind. While playing in bands I made the mistake for years of trying to sing like my favorite higher pitch rock singers like Daltry, Petty, Plant etc, constantly at the upper end of my range. In the last few years I've worked effectively to change this, and I get a lot less vocal strain as a result. (I ended up as defacto lead singer in 2 or 3 of the bands I played in despite the fact that my strength is not singing. The other guys in the band couldn't sing or wouldn't try.)

My natural vocal range and quality is really closer to that of a Billy Idol or Jim Morrison.

 

Sometimes I still end with ideas that relate to my old bad habit singing at the upper end of my range. If I can I try to transpose to handle the vocal easier. The main problem here is if you write on guitar you may not be able to duplicate the fingerboard positions when changing the key. Sometimes a capo will do the trick but the higher string pitch doesn't always sound appropriate to me when I'm trying to lower the pitch of the melody line.

[Electricview]

ahh so many people to quote

 

First of all i use my computer to record and i have a multi track program (cool edit pro) so i'm not sure the point of a 4 track...

 

I write the lyrics becusae, on one other of my finished songs.. there was a line i sang.. and someone once complimented me on the short sentance of lyrics that is, and i thought of it, and it was an innocent enough line.. but from that point on, i really enjoyed singing that line..and i really enjoy singing along with other bands that i like.. I think my biggest problems right now are 1. i'm writing riff's and chords before i even try to sing with them, then when it comes time to sing with them i can only think of one real melody or two, and they are allways out of my vocal range.. 2. i dont really sing with that emotion that alot of singers put forth.. when i'm singing their songs its so easy, the emotion just conjurs itself, but when i'm singing for my stuff.. its wierd. its like i'm so bent on trying to get into tune and trying to get a melody that works that there's no real emotion there, and when I sometimes try to "put" the emotion there it sounds ... bad.. to me ...

 

Its so wierd being the role of a musician for me.. somedays i'll think of something i could write or get some idea in my head or maybe just have a random thought of "hey maybe i can do this! Maybe i can be a musician in a different way from others and write some stuff thats still good".. but then mintues or hours or days later, i'll have a thought that just says "this stuff is all crap, none of its worth listening to, this isn't worth it you cant do it"... I seem to get that one more than the hopefull one.. and its not a self confidence thing, i'm not putting myself down to put myself down, i just geniunenly feel my stuff is good enough.. i know "you're" your own worst critic..but i also think that sometimes that can be the best thing.. at least for people who use that reasoning to make their stuff better.. I just wish i could write somethign in the meantime that was a landmark for me a peice that i could allways look back on and never turn back becuase of.. doesnt have to be my ultimate goal but something that lets me know for sure i've got some talent doing this..

 

anyways its great to hear everyone elses stories... One thing i allways wanted to try was find someone in a similar situation as me and try to like compose stuff over the internet, send mp3's have them add parts and send them back ect ect...... i kind of did it with a friend of mine who actually lives here, he once added some bass for one of the riff's i was working on.. but hasn't sence.. anyone else tried this?

[bobsetsfire]

I'm in a band, but we're a covers-only band (hey, don't knock it, we make hundreds every gig don't we?!) So we don't play any originals (obviously:p).

But I kept writing songs, and I found that I always forget them , so I started recording them on my computer, as I went on, I got better writing songs and producing them, so I got more serious about it. I'm still yet to play any shows, but I hope that'll come with time!

I'm pretty perfection...istic..al... with my songs NOW... but I wasn't particularly at the beginning (as you will hear!)

 

But I really like it, I get the sounds I want when and how I want them! FAR better than being with any band!

 

I tend to write songs on an acoustic, then compse a MIDI file with piano, bass, strings, drums etc. so I know where the song is going, then I record them.

 

http://www.bobert.chokesondick.com/songcoms.html

 

I think the best song is 'Just Another Letdown'... It's the song that best represents my song-writing, production and writing of vocal lines that are a mite too high

 

Thanks for taking a look!

[bobsetsfire]

Originally posted by The Nomad of Rock I'm in a band, but we're a covers-only band (hey, don't knock it, we make hundreds every gig don't we?!) So we don't play any originals (obviously:p). But I kept writing songs, and I found that I always forget them , so I started recording them on my computer, as I went on, I got better writing songs and producing them, so I got more serious about it. I'm still yet to play any shows, but I hope that'll come with time! I'm pretty perfection...istic..al... with my songs NOW... but I wasn't particularly at the beginning (as you will hear!) But I really like it, I get the sounds I want when and how I want them! FAR better than being with any band! I tend to write songs on an acoustic, then compse a MIDI file with piano, bass, strings, drums etc. so I know where the song is going, then I record them. http://www.bobert.chokesondick.com/songcoms.html I think the best song is 'Just Another Letdown'... It's the song that best represents my song-writing, production and writing of vocal lines that are a mite too high Thanks for taking a look!

 

By the way, http://www.bobert.chokesondick.com/justanotherletdown.mp3 is the direct link to the mp3!

 

Hey, how cool am I?! I quoted myself!

[Wayrockin1]

 

Originally posted by Electricview anyways its great to hear everyone elses stories... One thing i allways wanted to try was find someone in a similar situation as me and try to like compose stuff over the internet, send mp3's have them add parts and send them back ect ect...... i kind of did it with a friend of mine who actually lives here, he once added some bass for one of the riff's i was working on.. but hasn't sence.. anyone else tried this?

 

 

Yes, the cyberjammers in the vets forum have been writing songs together and jamming for a year now, using the very method you just described! If you're already familiar with Cool Edit Pro, then you're way ahead of the game and ready to come and join in the fun.

 

The best way to start is to contribute to a couple of jams first. This will let people get to know you and your style, and you can get a feel for everyone else's. Then you'll have a idea of who you might like to write with.

 

There is a thread started by Moody for a series of minijams, which may be especially interesting to you. You sign up and tell Moody what roles you could fill in a group; guitarist, bassist, drummer, writer, singer, producer, and once everyone's signed up, he will divide everyone into groups. Each group works together to produce a piece of music. When it's done you post on the forum for everone to enjoy! The signup for this one is almost over, so hurry if you want in on it.

 

You can also sign up for cyberjams, where one guy acts as the producer and posts a framework and everyone else lays down a guitar solo. The producer then puts all of it together so it sounds like all the players were jamming somewhere together.

 

If you have other questions, I'll be happy to help you out; just send me a private message.

[Death Requisite]

SOLO