keys

[ClusterOne]

my question deals mainly with improvisation, but is also a problem I've run into alot when songwriting. My knowledge of theory is all but nil, so I hate my automatic assumption that when writing a solo or riff, or just jamming with someone, it's automatically going to be in the key of the first Chord of the progression: I was to understand that this isn't always neccesarily the case, but I'd love someone to start me down the path of learning when and how to use other keys and why. I'm not asking for a ten hour theory lesson that no one is inclined to type I'm sure, but if you could just point me in the right direction, I can probably figure the rest out on my own

 

any help is appreciated!

 

take it easy

[Wayrockin1]

I'm not sure I understand the question, but I'll take a stab at it!

 

You're right that songs don't always start with the I chord of the key you're in. The whole idea with chord progressions is that the I chord is "home"; it's stable, and it doesn't feel like it's "leading" to any other chord. Other chords lead the music away from this place of rest and back again. You can start a progression on any chord; it's all about how you get back to "home".

 

There are some very common ways to lead to the I chord. The progressions, ii, V, I or IV, V, I (in C, that would be Dm, G, C or F, G, C) are tip offs to the key you're in. Another one would be bVI, bVII, I (in C, Ab, Bb, C).

 

Often in a bridge or chorus, the song may temporarily leave the original key, and go to a different one, for contrast. It may just jump to a foreign chord, or it may go there smoothly; setting up the change by playing a ii, V or a IV, V of the new key. Then once you're there, you play in that key for a while, and when your ready, go back by playing chords that lead from one to another back to "home".

 

Tell me if this answers your question! I tried not to get into much theory, but I'd be glad to discuss it more, if you want. Also, Scott Jones has written a terrific primer on chord progressions he may post in this thread if you ask him.

[ClusterOne]

you actually said alot of things to me that made sense and helped me understand a bit more about how progressions work, but I don't know if what I was asking was what you answered. I'll see if I can put this into the simplest terms possible so we can see if we're on the same page. Let's say my buddy there is playing a progression. for the sake of argument we'll say it's G-Cadd9-G-Cadd9-G-Bm-Em-C-D.

 

The natural assumption when I'm improvising over this is to work mainly with the G Major scale. Sure I could use G minor as well, or blues, or whatever, but my question is, what about not G at all?

 

Does it have to be G?

 

But seriously, I'm more informed because of your reply, so thanks

[WattsUrizen]

G would be the safest key. G minor would be a tad risky... D would work quite well, and possibly A (although the G# would create some piquant dissonance).

 

Of course, it will add alot more interest to your work if you move outside the scale and add in chromatic tones. Dissonance is an extremely powerful tool, since it increases tension, creates interest in the listener, and provides momentum. If you create a homogenous texture with bland diatonic patterns, the listener will get bored quickly.

 

You have to remember that improvising is largely a hearing skill: You need to be able to hear what you want to play, and transfer that into the instrument. Theorising about it just limits you.

[Wayrockin1]

I agree on pretty much with Anomandaris, but I'll throw this in as well; it's perfectly ok to stay mainly on the G scale or even simpler, G major pentatonic, and just add a little 'spice' once in a while. You could play a different scale over each chord if you wanted to, but to me that's more for a jazz improv thing and less for songwriting.

 

Try a couple of these and see how you like the sounds!

 

Over a major chord:

 

Lydian - 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 8 (over a G chord, that would be G A B C# D E F# G)

 

Augmented - 1 #2 3 5 b6 7 8 (G A# B D Eb F# G )

 

Over a minor chord:

 

Dorian - 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 8

 

Harmonic Minor - 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7 8

 

Phrygian - 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 8

 

Blues - 1 b3 3 4 #4 5 b7 8

 

 

Have fun!

 

[Docktor Rocktor]

Strictly speaking, the key doesn't matter at all. What matters is the sound of all the instruments all put together. The key of a song, or the particular chord in the progression, is just a shorthand for the notes that will tend to have more consonance with the "root note(s)", or the note(s) that are most prominent in that chunk of music. In practical terms, however, understanding different keys, modes, and tonalities helps a lot.

A guitar string, when plucked, produces a whole range of "overtones" in addition to the "nominal note"(this also applies to a piano string, or vibrating air in a saxaphone, or whatever). If you mute the guitar string at, say, the twelth fret, you can isolate some of those overtones. This is typically called a harmonic. Describing all the physics behind this is far beyond the scope of this post, but suffice to say that there are nearly infinite harmonics that can be produced on a guitar. But the common "twelve tone system" is not infinite. It divides every octave into twelve intervals. This means that some of the notes will be in between some of the dominant harmonics, and they will sound somewhat dissonant when played with other notes. this is okay, in fact it's good.

Broadly speaking, major scales tend to play notes that are slightly sharp, compared with dominant overtones, and minor scales tend to be somewhat flat compared to the natural overtones. This is why major chords and scales sound sort of bright and eager, whereas minor tends to sound slow or melancholy.

in short, happy songs tend to be major, sad songs tend to be minor. this is an area where even a little bit of education can go a long way, so I suggest you read up. There used to be a book called, I think, "the heavy guitar bible" that was an excellent introduction to these concepts, starting with the pentatonic scales, which are the easiest and most useful for a rock, pop, or blues player.

I don't know if this makes any sense to you or not, but it's worth looking into. Keys and modes are the phonics of playing music. without them you're kind of stuck with either just playing memorized licks, or with blind experimentation to see what sounds good.