Members Roger the Shrubber Posted October 23, 2002 Members Share Posted October 23, 2002 I don't know what it is about me, but all of my songs are way too complex, I must have some disease where I can't write a simple song with plain major or minor chords, or 4/4 time sig. I play piano, and have a pretty good knowledge of theory, and a really good sense of rhythm. Lately, all of the songs I've been writing change time sigs constantly between 4/4, 17/8, 5/8 etc and 7/4 and stuff. I also use way too many jazz complex chords and stuff (which are good, but I overuse) eg. C min7 9 or C maj7 9 blah blah. Does anyone else have this problem?lol, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jonosing Posted October 23, 2002 Members Share Posted October 23, 2002 No, I don't. It's only a problem if you don't like what you're hearing. If you like it, go with it. If you don't, leave it and come back later. The songs I've been most happy with were the ones that just kind of happened on their own. My first band had a similar problem. We would write tricky stuff, stuff we were proud of, but when I heard it on tape, much of the time I didn't hear music that inspired me. Not something I would seek out. Record your stuff, take a few days away from it, and then (try to) listen to it as if you've never heard it before. Does it inspire? Interest? Let your friends hear it. Listen carefully to their thoughts, especially if they don't like it. Find out why. (those people who tell you they don't care for it are your real friends) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roger the Shrubber Posted October 23, 2002 Author Members Share Posted October 23, 2002 hmmm... thanks, for the reply..it's weird. I like what I write, but sometimes I feel that I'm trying too hard to write stuff, when I should probably just let it come out. cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thelonius74 Posted October 23, 2002 Members Share Posted October 23, 2002 "Rock and roll and soulStinking up the chartsRunning over all these songs have got too many parts" - The Gas Giants Complex songs are not a problem. When songs sound complex...then you have a problem. Brian Wilson's songs were extremely intricate, take Good Vibrations for instance. But at the end of the day, it sounds like a good radio friendly pop tune. anyone...and I mean ANYONE...can sit there and say "oh, today I'll write a song in 5/4 and then switch it up...change keys every two measures, etc." But usually it sounds like {censored}. It's also the sign of a very immature writer. I know guys who can outplay most anyone you can think of, and they get paid to go in and repeat two chords in meter. Everyone else may scoff at that...but there's a reason they got the job. BTW...I love jazz chords, I'm a jazz freak. My moniker is 'Thelonius' for heaven sakes! But again, you can't make it sound like you're shoving jazz progressions and chords down people's throats. Two great examples "Penny Lane" by the Beatles and "God Only Knows" by the Beach Boys. Extremely complex progressions with lots of cool /slash/ chords. But it doesn't sound pretentious at all. On the timing thing, listen to some Dave Brubeck...once again, that is in a jazz context....but can you get any cooler than that? He has one of the most popular songs in the world and it's in 5/4 time. No one notices. THAT..is what it's all about to me. Some more cool timing examples, are "The Ocean" by Led Zeppelin.....4/4 every other measure and 7/8 every other measure. And it's all over Beatles records. Try "Here Comes The Sun" by the Beatles...that will just boggle ones mind. That's why, no offense if this is what you're into..but a lot of prog metal bands who do this kind of thing so pretentiously just make me giggle. If you can't put it in a listenable package (listenable to someone other than a musician) then it's just not worth a {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jonosing Posted October 23, 2002 Members Share Posted October 23, 2002 Originally posted by thelonius74 [b That's why, no offense if this is what you're into..but a lot of prog metal bands who do this kind of thing so pretentiously just make me giggle. If you can't put it in a listenable package (listenable to someone other than a musician) then it's just not worth a {censored}. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thelonius74 Posted October 23, 2002 Members Share Posted October 23, 2002 BTW..I just listened to your two songs. On the Love Song...I dug it, reminded me of Joe Jackson (other than the lyrics). Who's another great example of what I was talking about. I'm not sure which voice is yours, but I would reccomend that the back up singer work on pitch, and the lead singer work on meter. ESPECIALLY the lead singer...not because he's that atrocious...because if you're going to have music that is harmonically and rhythmically more complex, it is the singer's job to tie it in and make it presentable. And meter is one of the most underrated elements in this area. Donald Fagen is a great example. You may or may not like his voice, but the sonofabitch sings tighter than a drummer. And you don't realize that you're listening to jazz. "Well you wouldn't even know a diamond if you held it in your hand, the things you think are precious I can't understand". Good work. I don't get the death metal song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HOWDJA Posted October 24, 2002 Members Share Posted October 24, 2002 Back in the seventies and eighties Jethro Tull was noted for their crazy time changes. At one time they and Led Zep took turns breaking each other's concert records, so I don't think anyone looked at it as a problem. Songs like "Thick as a Brick" and "Songs From the Wood" stand out. One song in particular, "A Passion Play" was singled out for a passage which contained overlapping time signatures in the mid-part of the piece. It was so innovative that some college level music professor asked Ian Anderson to speak to his class on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WattsUrizen Posted October 24, 2002 Members Share Posted October 24, 2002 You don't need to worry about writing music that is complex, as long as you are happy with how it sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roger the Shrubber Posted October 24, 2002 Author Members Share Posted October 24, 2002 thanks for the advice... i think I'll stop worrying about it now, I'll ujst concentrate on if I like it or not, because in the end, I'll probably be the person hearing it the most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flat Fifth Fury Posted October 28, 2002 Members Share Posted October 28, 2002 If you are writing jazz or prog then don't worry. If it sounds good then it is good. If you are trying to write pop then you have a big problem. It's all in the application and intent. I can't write in 4/4 nearly as well as I do in any other time sig. Sue me. That's why I play prog - I can write in alternataing bars of 7/8 and 11/8 with every fifth bar being 5/8 and if it sounds cool then it's ok. The hard part is to not make that kind of thing sound like you are trying to be odd or tricky for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WattsUrizen Posted October 28, 2002 Members Share Posted October 28, 2002 Originally posted by Flat Fifth Fury The hard part is to not make that kind of thing sound like you are trying to be odd or tricky for the sake of it. Exactly. This is the problem that plagues far too many of today's so called progressive music. Be musical, not pretentious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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