I've been having a crapload of trouble making melodies

[PhilSick]

Originally posted by PhilSick you've either got it or you aint! if you've got it then you'd have no need to post a thread like this!

 

 

Yeah ok, my fault for leaving the word "naturally" out. Should have explained what i was getting at in more detail i guess!

 

> Still, i never said people "can't learn" to write melodys.

[FelixCat]

BryanMichael,

"Who is the "better" writer? The guy that is brilliant but hasn't ever finished anything at all or the person that can finish a novel by hard work?"


My new words to live by. I constantly write songs, have a combination of lyrics, chord progression, bridge, chorus, but am missing one or the other. I become so frustrated that I abandon them.

Sometimes you read something that smacks you into reality. At that moment you realize what you have been doing wrong and you resolve to correct it.


Phil,

It's an amazing feat to be able to master all areas of musicianship. It is a long, difficult and often frustrating road that must be travelled in order to become a good combination composer, arranger, lyricist, instrumentalist.

Lennon/McCartney come to mind -- as do others. I would suggest that if you look back on their musical talent progression, you will find that what differentiates them from the others is the unabashed determination with which the pursue their craft.

How many of the great musicians played their instrument non-stop in the learning stages and thereafter? Through blisters, finger cramps, repetitive strain injuries. How many lyrics were massaged until the right ones coalesced? How much time was spent doodling on the instrument until the catchy riff materialized?

As with anything in life hard work and persistence pay off. Sure, talent does play a role. Some things come easier to some people. They just "get it." Math seems intuitive to some. The bat an extension of anothers hand. The person born with the long lanky dextrous fingers suited for playing piano.

Yet, without the practice and time investment behind it, "it" never comes.

I read some of your other posts by chance and see you own a studio. How long did it take you to become good at what you do? Did it come "naturally?" Did you sit down at the console for the first time and just "know" what had to be done? I suspect not.

So also with musicianship and other things in life. You grow, you learn, you improve and you go as far as you wish to.

Look at the help wanted ads. Do they look for people with experience? Why? Presumably because the person with experience knows what they are doing.

Let's revisit this post in 20 years and we'll compare your talent today to the one you'll have. Something tells me that provided you stick with what you do, someone will listen to your work and think "Man, that guy is talented, he knows what he's doing." See you in 20...

Damn stream of consciousness...

[mmmiddle]

Hear hear.

We are judged by what we have accomplished, not by our potential.

[PhilSick]

Hiya Felix.........I guess the main thing here is Personal Opinion (PO)....... In my experience in the past 25yrs of working in most areas of this business; without any shadow of a doubt in my mind: "you've either got it or you aint" naturally or otherwise, my PO!

Originally posted by FelixCat It's an amazing feat to be able to master all areas of musicianship. It is a long, difficult and often frustrating road that must be travelled in order to become a good combination composer, arranger, lyricist, instrumentalist. Lennon/McCartney come to mind

Well you can't argue the fact they are mega famous & successful pheeeew but personally (I'm talking music not lyrics) I've never rated Lennon/McCartney much! There's many Lennon/McCartney's out there. These two were just lucky enough to have their stuff played constantly all over the world, otherwise people would never of heard of them to like em in the first place!!!...again PO.

"they must have something tho, look at what they've achieved" i hear you say. Yeah sure they had something: a severe money driven publicity engine behind them, there for tons of air play.......{censored}, i remember a time when every other song you heard was the feckin Beatles.... every feckin TV show had the Beatles headlining. With that kind of backing/publicity who can fail!?! even I would sell tons of records..& I'm crap!!!! & don't forget many companies turned em down because their PO at the time was: "you ain't got it boys" or words to that effect.

With regards to this topic; To me, asking for help/ideas is defeating the object of writing "YOUR OWN" music!! If one feels the need to ask then maybe collaboration is the best approach as suggested earlier!

Personally I've never experienced writers block. I can think of anything & a chord progression/melody will smack me in the face like a sledgehammer & "I" will be happy with it. BUT!!! & this is a very big & important "but"; how good my stuff is is purely down to PO again!

Originally posted by BryanMichael Again- EVERYONE CAN WRITE A FREAKING SONG! It's impossible not to be able to- B

Hello again Bryan, no disrespect but that's horse{censored}:) ........ Vomit on a piece of canvas, let it dry, hang it on a wall & declare it as art?!?!....... technically you're write I guess but for naff sake lets get realistic here!!!

Originally posted by BryanMichael And not being able to read music!? Come on man- every year countless 11 and 12 year olds pick up an instrument for the first time and learn how to read music B

What's with the "Come on man" bit? Why do you sound so surprised? ....it's to do with the mild form of dyslexia i have...not unusual apparently. Still, tough {censored} as they say:)

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/dccorneliusmusic.htm

[BryanMichael]

Phil-
I've worked with 6 year olds in the ghetto that cannot read, but they can "write a song"- Is it any good? Is it a REAL song? well, as I stated- that moves us into the next level. You can vomit on canvas put it on a wall and call it art, sure. And it IS! But is it GOOD art? That's another discussion altogether. I've worked with visual artists in another job that left me scratching my head, but honestly it then comes down to an entire philosophy about what IS art, what makes it GOOD, and what PURPOSE it serves, which is far too deep for this discussion.
Again, it is the phrase and the defense of it "you've got it or you aint" that bothers me because of it's finality. The phrase should be "You've got it or you aint...but you can go get it!" IMO.
You CAN learn to read music. Dyslexia and other barriers can be overcome, tchniques for writing can be learned, rules and structures applied and un-applied. If this weren't true there would be no need for teachers or classes or practice for anything- martial arts, football, ballet, journalism, film, art, painting, drawing, acting: because if I just "don't have it" your statement still appears to say that I never will, even if that's not what you really meant.
-B

P.S. By the way, I've listened to some of your stuff and I like it I am surprised that you don;t consider Lennon/McCartney good songwriters because in every sense of the word IMO they are fine songwriters that can transend style with their songs- they sound good in the raw form melody, lyric, chords which is the true root of songwriting (in the accepted form of the craft) Songwriting is something very specific-it took me years to get that.
But your musical pieces are compositions in the academic sense and not really songs in the traditional songwriter sense. Personally I draw a distinct line between what makes a song and an instrumental composition.
Nice stuff- kinda Holdsworthian....although if I had to make one critique it would be that you hover around the root quite a bit in your lead excursions

[mmmiddle]

PhilSick you have outlined a very difficult position to hold when you say that the only difference between the average guy and Lennon/McCartney is the amount of marketing.

That's not even worth my time to address. Obviously you've had enough time to think about what you are saying, so you really believe it.

OK. I'll leave you to your folly. My guess is that this idea of yours is rooted somehow in bitterness. Did you write some songs once that you thought were good enough to make you popular and then experience taught you otherwise? Is that maybe why you consoled yourself with the idea that "it just wasn't marketed enough" ?

How banal.

[PhilSick]

Originally posted by BryanMichael You can vomit on canvas put it on a wall and call it art, sure. And it IS! But is it GOOD art?

Bryan- easy to answer, it's a majority thing: take 100 Normal Joe Blows from a shopping mall........put them in front of said piece of art & ask: "is this GOOD art, yes or no?"

I would say 95% if not 100 would answer: "NO, it's feckin horrible!":)

Originally posted by BryanMichael You CAN learn to read music.

Well you know best! better not to comment on this! doggy area i don't want to get into at the mo!

Originally posted by BryanMichael P.S. By the way, I've listened to some of your stuff and I like it

Thank you Sir. Got some stuff of yours i can click on?

Originally posted by BryanMichael I am surprised that you don;t consider Lennon/McCartney good songwriters because in every sense of the word IMO they are fine songwriters that can transend style with their songs- they sound good in the raw form melody, lyric, chords which is the true root of songwriting

yes...IN_YOUR_OPINION!! Like i said: it's all down to opinion, so IN_MY_OPINION!! listening to stuff by Lennon/McCartney does nothing for me at all, for many reasons. Most people seem to think they're great but i don't!!! this is mainly due to fact that they are mega stars more than anything else IMO.

Originally posted by BryanMichael although if I had to make one critique it would be that you hover around the root quite a bit in your lead excursions

Yep Absolutely!!! Record company directives at the time:mad: Keep it as simple as pos so as to secure daytime airplay on the UK's Jazz-FM

[PhilSick]

Hello Sigmund .....1 minute please, just going to get comfortable & put me feet up. AHHH that's better, ok.

Originally posted by mmmiddle PhilSick you have outlined a very difficult position to hold when you say that the only difference between the average guy and Lennon/McCartney is the amount of marketing.

You know what Doc, i can't for the life of me remember saying: "the average guy" anywhere in me posts. I honestly thought i said: " There's many Lennon/McCartney's out there" meaning as good as or better in some cases IMO! Strange how the mind plays tricks on you........{censored}, you've got me worried now. Where's me bottle of Prozac gone? When you say "average" i take it you mean "unknown"? Many brilliant unknowns out there Doc! You wont know that tho cos you don't hear them as much as those fortunate enough to be played on the radio 24/7

Originally posted by mmmiddle OK. I'll leave you to your folly. My guess is that this idea of yours is rooted somehow in bitterness. Did you write some songs once that you thought were good enough to make you popular and then experience taught you otherwise? Is that maybe why you consoled yourself with the idea that "it just wasn't marketed enough" ? How banal.

So as you see it Doc; My opinions of Lennon/McCartney is routed in a disappointment somewhere in the past, kinda Freudian? hmmmmmm, interesting. & there's me thinking after all this time i didn't like em cos their music & style of writing just don't appeal to me. well, you learn something new every day!.......... I dislike (for what ever reason) many top artists & to be honest; I'd hate to be in their position, period!!!!!!! It got Lennon shot dead for one!!! ......as far as i know I'm doing quite well without being bitter or famous, or am i?? {censored}, i can't remember. ooow, i don't feel good Doc now i know the truth about myself!!

Anyways, thanks for your time Dr Freud...how much do i owe you? PayPal ok?

PS. or was it Elvis who got shot? I'm confused!! Who am i? Where do i live? Why is that 6ft carrot talking to me in French? i don't speak French!!! feckin stupid carrot... AHHHHHHHHH Prozac Prozac!!

[BryanMichael]

Originally posted by PhilSick Bryan- easy to answer, it's a majority thing: take 100 Normal Joe Blows from a shopping mall........put them in front of said piece of art & ask: "is this GOOD art, yes or no?" I would say 95% if not 100 would answer: "NO, it's feckin horrible!":) Well you know best! better not to comment on this! doggy area i don't want to get into at the mo! Thank you Sir. Got some stuff of yours i can click on? yes...IN_YOUR_OPINION!! Like i said: it's all down to opinion, so IN_MY_OPINION!! listening to stuff by Lennon/McCartney does nothing for me at all, for many reasons. Most people seem to think they're great but i don't!!! this is mainly due to fact that they are mega stars more than anything else IMO. Yep Absolutely!!! Record company directives at the time:mad: Keep it as simple as pos so as to secure daytime airplay on the UK's Jazz-FM

OK- point by point_

So it's a MAJORITY thing that determines "good art"??

So by that logic N'Sync, Garth Brooks, and Adam Sandler must be the pinnacle of our artistic community since they sell the most records and have the most popular films etc...SO many people lap that stuff up and think it is just GREAT! LOL! Please, man -
There are centuries of VOLUMES of books written on art criticism and aesthetics, the purpose of 'art' and it's function is society-
If you really think that all it is is a popularity contest then there is really no hope for you..LOL! That's why I said it was too deep for this conversation. LOL! whatever 95% of the people say....LOL!!!!

If you are struggling with dyslexia, I'm not trying to minimalize it, but you sound resigned to the fact that reading music is impossible for you- I'm sorry to hear that it's been such a struggle-
in all honesty I don;t know how hard you've really tried, so I'm not going to insult you. It's just been my experience that much of what holds us back can be overcome. Good Luck with your quest.

ACtually what constitutes "good songwriting" is NOT my opinion- again there are scores of books, workshops, and an entire industry/career path that follows conventions that have been established for the "craft" of songwriting that stretch from sometime in the 18th century forward to what is "modern pop songwriting" (and I use pop in the sense "popular" which includes ALL genres from R&B to Metal to country etc...)
That's why those books, workshops, and classes exist- there are conventions that are used and applied and techniques that are taught- It's like writing a novel- you can just sit down and write, and maybe some people will like it OK, but when you learn HOW to write, your writing gets better- this isn't my opinion, it's an established craft like building a table. The thing that most people don't get, especially on boards like this one is that it has nothing to do with STYLE of a song really, it's mechanics (with variations within style) this is also not to say that exceptions cannot occur or that songs that lack "proper" techniques cannot be "good songs" or vice-versa (a song that is well constructed and follows all the RULES might be boring and ineffective- proper stucture but lacking something) and in this I do admit there IS some nuance and "opinion" involved, but it is secondary to the mechanics.
I've read tons of books on songwriting- it's the same accross the board, it is NOT just my opinion. Having said that, Lennon/McCartney embody a creative partnership which by all the conventions and standards place them as "Good songwriters" gain, not my opinion- It's as if they built tables. There is really no denying the craftsmanship-the mechanics. NOW whether or not you like the STYLE of the tables they built...well, yes that is up to you. But style and aesthetic is seperate from the mechanics and craft of songwriting- they are two different parts to the same thing. Again, this is not my opinion. Read up, you will see what I mean- I understand why people get these things confused-as I said, it took me YEARS to "get" that songwriting is a very specific thing- it doesn't mean that music cannot be created outside of that structure that is "good" and satisfying (like your compositions- good, satisfying music...but not "songs")- Two different things. The fact that you dislike them just "Because they are mega stars" doesn't make sense to me either

That seems to be very shallow in reasoning. I don;t like them because they are popular...
What does that have to do with actual craftsmanship?
B

[mmmiddle]

Come on PhilSick! I wanted to fight.

BryanMichael, I'm with you 100% on your argument. I've had the same discussion with the other guitarist in my band. It is an odd phenomenon to me that no one gives any credit to artists and musicians. The prevailing attitude minimizes their accomplishments as the result of being merely gifted. But there are dozens of gifted songwriters, composers, and musicians who don't produce good material. What makes it worse is when those gifted artists dismiss their failure with the excuse that they just aren't getting the right exposure. Exposure is earned by virtue of having good songs. People want to hear good songs, and if they're good enough, you'll find the right people who want to help you get your material out there.

One guitarist I played with for awhile had another common but misguided viewpoint. He believed that songwriters should write songs for theirselves. His reasoning was that if he was really into the songs he wrote, then they must contain "honest emotion" and therefore people would really relate. The only problem was that his songs were so scattered that it was impossible to listen to them. He tried to include way too many things in one song.

[BryanMichael]

Originally posted by mmmiddle Come on PhilSick! I wanted to fight. BryanMichael, I'm with you 100% on your argument. I've had the same discussion with the other guitarist in my band. It is an odd phenomenon to me that no one gives any credit to artists and musicians. The prevailing attitude minimizes their accomplishments as the result of being merely gifted. But there are dozens of gifted songwriters, composers, and musicians who don't produce good material. What makes it worse is when those gifted artists dismiss their failure with the excuse that they just aren't getting the right exposure. Exposure is earned by virtue of having good songs. People want to hear good songs, and if they're good enough, you'll find the right people who want to help you get your material out there. One guitarist I played with for awhile had another common but misguided viewpoint. He believed that songwriters should write songs for theirselves. His reasoning was that if he was really into the songs he wrote, then they must contain "honest emotion" and therefore people would really relate. The only problem was that his songs were so scattered that it was impossible to listen to them. He tried to include way too many things in one song.

Someone who writes "only for themselves" has already found their audience (himself) so why complain?

I agree that art is a commodity in Western Societies especially.
In many African societies music is a shared event and there is no word for "art".

B

[PhilSick]

Originally posted by mmmiddle Come on PhilSick! I wanted to fight.

just having a bit of fun mm;) I liked your line: > It has meaning but unfortunately you didn't back it up!!! You replied again!

[PhilSick]

Bryan.........where are the links I asked you for? I'd like to hear what you can do! Just out of interest.

[BryanMichael]

Originally posted by PhilSick Bryan.........where are the links I asked you for? I'd like to hear what you can do! Just out of interest.

Honestly I don't have any of my personal songs up right now, I'm working on some as we speak.
My website is also no more.

If you want to know of some of the projects I've been involved with- I wrote a song that made it onto the soundtrack of this movie:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0305476/

low-budget indy thing, but it got released.

The last project I was involved with was as a bassist for this singer-songwriter that is signed to a small label in Germany:
www.fredharing.com

and I wrote a couple of musical plays for children and a radio jingle a few years ago.
I've been in bands for nearly 20 years making a part of my living off of that for many years before quitting in 2001. One band put out an album that didn't go anywhere.

Most of my musical life has been as a sideman and arranger-guys hook up with me because I can sing, I can play, and I can arrange- and I've only recently (in the past year) sat down with all of MY boxes of old tapes and demos and started to record them on the computer- It's been a slow process as I've had to buy mics and things that I sold off in previous years and I no don;t have the money to buy the gear I need so I'm trying to find the cheapest (yet best) solutions possible (if that can be done)
So anyway, I'm in the middle of some tunes now that I hope to make available by mid September.
right now, I'm afraid all I could offer is lyrics..I may be able to extract a one mic demo (just me and acoustic) from a CD and send it to you if you want as an example of the song "in the raw"-
B

[PhilSick]

Originally posted by mmmiddle Exposure is earned by virtue of having good songs.

 

 

This statement is complete bollox!!!!!!!!!!! mm... do you write good songs in your opinion? Or does anyone else you know personally write good songs "in your opinion?"

If your answer is yes to this then why are you/them not earning top money accordingly? The way your logic sees it you can't write good songs then, otherwise you would have been signed ages ago!

 

Originally posted by mmmiddle But there are dozens of gifted songwriters, composers, and musicians who don't produce good material.

eh!?!? If they don't produce good material in whatever shape or form then they're not feckin gifted are they?!?!!?!? What the feck are you talking about!?!?!? You've contradicted yaself in one line there, brilliant!!

I don't know...maybe I'm stupid but if a gifted bricklayer builds a wall & it's not good, out of line, starts to crumble after 2 days etc then he is NOT a gifted bricklayer?

 

Originally posted by mmmiddle One guitarist I played with for awhile had another common but misguided viewpoint. He believed that songwriters should write songs for theirselves. His reasoning was that if he was really into the songs he wrote, then they must contain "honest emotion" and therefore people would really relate.

 

"misguided viewpoint"?!?!? Absolutely agree with your guitarist friend...he obviously has soul!!! The only time you "don't" write for yourself is when you write for others for big money, like I do!! Have you ever considered the possiblity that you might not be as clever as you think you are Doc?

[mmmiddle]

You're the only one who doesn't get it.

[BryanMichael]

Originally posted by PhilSick This statement is complete bollox!!!!!!!!!!! mm... do you write good songs in your opinion? Or does anyone else you know personally write good songs "in your opinion?" If your answer is yes to this then why are you/them not earning top money accordingly? The way your logic sees it you can't write good songs then, otherwise you would have been signed ages ago! eh!?!? If they don't produce good material in whatever shape or form then they're not feckin gifted are they?!?!!?!? What the feck are you talking about!?!?!? You've contradicted yaself in one line there, brilliant!! I don't know...maybe I'm stupid but if a gifted bricklayer builds a wall & it's not good, out of line, starts to crumble after 2 days etc then he is NOT a gifted bricklayer? "misguided viewpoint"?!?!? Absolutely agree with your guitarist friend...he obviously has soul!!! The only time you "don't" write for yourself is when you write for others for big money, like I do!! Have you ever considered the possiblity that you might not be as clever as you think you are Doc?

Phil- Now I'm confused.
So, if something has a 95% public approval rating...then it is "good" yet a writier should only "write for himself" because then it has integrity?



Which is it?

I thought the idea behind writing (Songs-but other creative endeavors apply here) was to communicate something to other people through a different means-- if not, then the audience is completely irrelavant in the entire process. The creator is only creating for themselves, so how can 95% of the people understand? And better yet, why should they care? what's in it for them? As I said before- a writer creating for themselves alone has already reached their audience-themselves.

As for the guitarist in the previous post---what about creating poorly crafted songs means that this guy has "soul"?

It's like telling a story and saying "Once there was a little girl, and then Mars was exclipsed by a cow was sitting in a raisin bran knob helio google search the front cabbie New York jasper looks unconvincing change reset"

and expecting that everyone can relate to your "message"
?
What gives this person "soul"? the fact that they REALLY mean it?
If I REALLY mean jibberish does that mean I have soul too? What if I DON'T really mean a song I'm performing, yet the audience THINKS I do? Do I have soul? or is it only every once in awhile? what if I REALLY meant it when I wrote it, but not when I sung it? What if someone else REALLY meant it when they wrote it...but I'm singing it? Can i REALLY mean it?
It appears that your philosophy has painted you into a contradictory corner as well...

B

[PhilSick]

Originally posted by BryanMichael Phil- Now I'm confused. So, if something has a 95% public approval rating...then it is "good" yet a writier should only "write for himself" because then it has integrity? Which is it? I thought the idea behind writing (Songs-but other creative endeavors apply here) was to communicate something to other people through a different means-- if not, then the audience is completely irrelavant in the entire process. The creator is only creating for themselves, so how can 95% of the people understand? And better yet, why should they care? what's in it for them? As I said before- a writer creating for themselves alone has already reached their audience-themselves. As for the guitarist in the previous post---what about creating poorly crafted songs means that this guy has "soul"? It's like telling a story and saying "Once there was a little girl, and then Mars was exclipsed by a cow was sitting in a raisin bran knob helio google search the front cabbie New York jasper looks unconvincing change reset" and expecting that everyone can relate to your "message" ? What gives this person "soul"? the fact that they REALLY mean it? If I REALLY mean jibberish does that mean I have soul too? What if I DON'T really mean a song I'm performing, yet the audience THINKS I do? Do I have soul? or is it only every once in awhile? what if I REALLY meant it when I wrote it, but not when I sung it? What if someone else REALLY meant it when they wrote it...but I'm singing it? Can i REALLY mean it? It appears that your philosophy has painted you into a contradictory corner as well... B

Bryan..
Too many question marks !! we can go on like this forever my friend....I'm bored with it now......best we beg to differ & leave it at that!

good luck.

[BryanMichael]

Originally posted by PhilSick Bryan.. Too many question marks !! we can go on like this forever my friend....I'm bored with it now......best we beg to differ & leave it at that! good luck.

Well, I was really curious-
I mean, you started a different thread about wanting to be "impressed" by people, since you have "lost your faith" so to speak.

You've offered several contradictory statements in this thread- and while you have posted a bunch of good (music) stuff on the web, I didn't hear any songs- they were all compositions, but as I've tried to make clear (that this is not my OPINION but an established craft) that songwriting is something very specific.

You have stated that "good" art needs a strong measure of public opinion- yet the public says that Lennon/McCartney are excellent pop songwriters in an established tradition (and so do most all students of that craft) yet you claim that they aren't any good....

You have also made claims that a guitarist in another posters band that (by his account) doesn't structure songs well and that they were created (implied) without any regard to the audience.
ANd this has somehow qualified this person as having "soul"...

This IS my opinion- Phil, you seem to at once rally against established forms in popular music (again-the broader sense including just about everything we listen to including smooth jazz and heavy metal) yet you seem to be holding onto and perpetuating the myth of 'creativity' that permeates a culture that values art only as a commodity as well. It's very confusing. It also seems to be that you confuse the dislike of a particular STYLE with a criticism of songwriting form, structure, and execution. This is a common issue, especially on this forum.
FOr example: I really don;t like Dave Matthews band very much- it annoys me after a song or two...but I think he is a decent songwriter.

Can I just ask one thing- can you name THREE people that you consider "good" songwriters...better yet- anyone that you consider "great" ?

I mean please provide an example- this is still fascinating to me, as I have written on creativity and I'd like to understand these ideas better.

Thanks,
B


For the record I find Lyle Lovett, Richard Thompson, Bruce Springsteen, Bruce Cockburn, Johnny Cash, The Beatles and others to be excellent songwriters for comparisson.

[PhilSick]

Hey Bryan..........what are you trying to prove here? i honestly feel I'm (as an atheist) trying to discuss religion with a Christian fundamentalist ...completely pointless!!!!!!!! You were doing well up to now but you've now spoiled it with this:

Originally posted by BryanMichael the public says that Lennon/McCartney are excellent pop songwriters in an established tradition (and so do most all students of that craft) yet you claim that they aren't any good....

When did i ever claim that The Beatles aren't any good????!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?! Most people seem to like The Beatles, football, cars, boring soap operas...........I DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! M_P_O.
So as your logic sees it; if i say i don't like 4 wheeled drive cars for whatever personal reason (which i don't) to you does this mean I'm saying they're crap? Think about it!!!...So as far as the 95% thing you keep going on about; ok I'M WRONG!!!! i don't give a {censored}..... I still don't like the Beatles tho, wrong or not!!! I'm sure they're great at writing that kinda stuff but it's that kinda stuff i don't like!!! .....like i said: it's all down to personal opinion my friend & i don't think you can understand this going by your replies!!! I've already said we should beg to differ & leave it at that!!........
Just out of interest; so a song is something with a structured vocal melody in your eyes? If it hasn't got vocals in then it's not a song? If this is the case then you have a very strange way of perceiving things!
F

Originally posted by BryanMichael For the record I find Lyle Lovett, Richard Thompson, Bruce Springsteen, Bruce Cockburn, Johnny Cash, The Beatles and others to be excellent songwriters for comparisson.

yeah in your opinion but i don't like any of these people!!!!! Which is a perfect example of why i think this debate is now pointless!!!

[kurdy]

Originally posted by PhilSick Just out of interest; so a song is something with a structured vocal melody in your eyes? If it hasn't got vocals in then it's not a song? If this is the case then you have a very strange way of perceiving things!

 

 

Don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but technically, a song is something that is sung. If there's no singing in it, it's not a song. That's not to say that music without vocals is any better or worse. After all, Beethoven or Mozart's best known pieces didn't have any vocals. You just wouldn't call them songs.

[PhilSick]

Originally posted by kurdy technically, a song is something that is sung.

 

 

Ya know what?:

 

I don't give a {censored}

[PhilSick]

Originally posted by BryanMichael Can I just ask one thing- can you name THREE people that you consider "good" songwriters...better yet- anyone that you consider "great" ?

 

 

more than 3 just off the top of my head:

 

Pat Metheny, Dennis Chambers, Greg Howe, Oscar Peterson, Chick Corea, Gary Moore, Focus, PlanetX, Toto, Level 42, Steely Dan, Liquid Tension, Frank Gambalie, Dave Wekle, Vinnie Colaiuta, Weather Report.....pheeew, i could go on forever!

[BryanMichael]

Originally posted by PhilSick how much have we had to drink then boy? You wanna watch it before you soil ya underwear sunshine.....i'm a souless {censored} cos i like jazz ? oooow, r we seeing the REAL you now are we?? Don't like jazz then eh?? you've just contridicted everything you say you believe by that clever little remark! Well done you {censored}in moron!! i thought you was a prick when you started following me around in these forums, now i know you are! Twice i've said: "we should beg to differ & leave it at that" but no you keep goin on & {censored}in on even after i said i'm bored with ya!!!! I've been nice to you all this time but honestly i think you talk COMPLETE {censored}in crap!! any {censored}er can sit & type the {censored} you come out with but you aint even got the {censored}in guts to post something for me to listen to, to back up what you say have ya!!!!! !!....I could be talking to a 12yr old for all i know. i wont be replying anymore to this so you can shout ya stupid little mouth off as much as you want {censored} pig!!!!! try not to step on any land mines if you can help it!!

 

 

Again- you can't read-

I've offered to send you a song in the raw in a previous post.

 

I'm 34 for the record and I love jazz....real jazz. Not the pseudo crap you vomit forth (although it is in't bad... for that {censored}, I really didn;t want to get into a pissing match- but you were HELL bent on it from the word go, as if you could just dismiss me!? WTF? I was trying to have an interesting discussion!)

I've already conceded that- and to say you are bored with ME?

I'm the most interesting thing you've found here and I'm not following you around- I thought perhaps you had something to offer.....alas- what a stupid {censored} you have turmed out to be!! My GOD!! It matters not, true colors have been shown.

You are now a fart relegated to the wind.....

 

End.

[veil]

No fighting in my thread. I'll put you both in time-out.

Upon further examination, I'm not really sure what my problem with singing is. Sometimes I am positive that it's that I can't write melodies, but I can sing. Today, for instance, I'm sure it's the exact opposite. I'm going to do something I've never done before: I'm going to post something I have 1% confidence in. The two times I've ever posted on this site I've been pretty confident with my songs (instrumental) so I felt fine doing it.

If I did this, would you guys give me honest (but gentle ) opinions?