The hardest part so far...

[Miskatonic]

Is coming up with transitions between parts of the song, such as when a tempo change or mood change occurs with the riff, and not having it sound completely cliche in your mind.

 

I find myself hitting the same brick wall because I'm trying to use the same transition for all these songs.

 

There will be a part in the song where It's going fast and heavy and I want to change to something slower and more melodic. I find myself using the the quarter note or half note chords and letting them ring, usually with the drum track hitting the crash cymbal with a bass drum thump going at the same time signature.

 

Like this:

 

Sooooooooooooooong...change...right...now(let ring)...(melodic part begins with just the guitar riff and the rest is silent.)

[Krypter]

i have that problem all the time. If i figure out a easy way to get around it, ill let you know.

 

Right now we have two songs hanging in limbo trying o figure out non-cliche' transfer parts.

[tbry]

I am not very experienced so take my thoughts with a handful of salt...seems a minor chord helps to set up a turnaround pretty well...of course now I want to find another way cause I'm starting to use them a lot...I bet there is something on the internet in lesson form that could give some ideas also...

[zildjian@consol]

Use anything! go listen to YES they change at the drop of a hat.We had the same trouble for a while. Sounds like you doing the writing with out the group , which is ok, but you can't connect the parts ,it sucks. I usaully give the group both parts and let them connected them, then we take the best one til something better comes allong. Hope this helps.

[Miskatonic]

Double Post.

[Miskatonic]

 

Use anything! go listen to YES they change at the drop of a hat.We had the same trouble for a while. Sounds like you doing the writing with out the group , which is ok, but you can't connect the parts ,it sucks. I usaully give the group both parts and let them connected them, then we take the best one til something better comes allong. Hope this helps.

 

 

I've managed to create a few transitions on a few songs, but the mood of those songs don't change as drastically. I have no problem coming up with riffs that have their own unique flare, I just need to tie them together.

 

I'll listen to the YES that I have access to.

 

My main "philosophy" is that unless the chord transition that I described works for the song, I want to create as seamless a transition as possible. Herky jerky stuff just bugs me for some reason, unless it's Prog of course. Long drum rolls on the toms going from higher pitched to lower pitched also bug me unless they are used sparingly. I'm just trying to avoid some of the cliches that plague a lot of metal. Ironically I'm not the most gifted person when it comes to natural rhythm, but my drum tracks (Using Guitar Pro) are probably the standout point in a lot of the songs. Go figure.

 

I also have a problem with creating the fills on solos that connect the dots to the notes which are meant to stand out. I can come up with some slow to mid pace solos that are melodic but not necessarily epic and come to a climax. I'm a noob when it comes to a lot of it so part of it is just lack of experience.

[zildjian@consol]

 

I've managed to create a few transitions on a few songs, but the mood of those songs don't change as drastically. I have no problem coming up with riffs that have their own unique flare, I just need to tie them together. I'll listen to the YES that I have access to. My main "philosophy" is that unless the chord transition that I described works for the song, I want to create as seamless a transition as possible. Herky jerky stuff just bugs me for some reason, unless it's Prog of course. Long drum rolls on the toms going from higher pitched to lower pitched also bug me unless they are used sparingly. I'm just trying to avoid some of the cliches that plague a lot of metal. Ironically I'm not the most gifted person when it comes to natural rhythm, but my drum tracks (Using Guitar Pro) are probably the standout point in a lot of the songs. Go figure. I also have a problem with creating the fills on solos that connect the dots to the notes which are meant to stand out. I can come up with some slow to mid pace solos that are melodic but not necessarily epic and come to a climax. I'm a noob when it comes to a lot of it so part of it is just lack of experience.

 

 

I hear ya, from your quote sounds like you have a good handle on sound your looking for. Look at it this way , you know what you don't want so your half way there.

[Eclepto Funk]

i like the Pixies' and Nirvana's approach

 

they use a huge volume difference to signal a transition

 

have you tried going from REALLY REALLY loud to REALLY REALLY soft (or vice versa) for these changes?

[Miskatonic]

 

i like the Pixies' and Nirvana's approach they use a huge volume difference to signal a transition have you tried going from REALLY REALLY loud to REALLY REALLY soft (or vice versa) for these changes?

 

 

I haven't tried that approach yet. I've had guitar tracks come in with a progressively louder volume, starting from absolute silence while a bass track is going and eventually coming to the volume that everything else is at. If you have ever heard Black Magic by Slayer then you'll know what I mean by the opening. I've started a song with that and had a transition like I described above.

 

Are there any songs in particular that you'd recommend I look into to get a better idea about the volume changes?

[Miskatonic]

 

I hear ya, from your quote sounds like you have a good handle on sound your looking for. Look at it this way , you know what you don't want so your half way there.

 

 

Definitely. There's a big difference in sound when you can't play solos at the speed you want and so you are playing the scale and moving towards a note that "accents" the solo and stands out but at a slow pace. Some sections are a basic scale run but done quickly they sound right, but when they are done at a slow to moderate pace they sound like you are just practicing scales and not doing anything musically, lol.

[grace_slick]

Ugh, the whole process of writing songs is hard for me!! I've not been doing it long. Only about 9 months maybe.

 

I find when I want to do a transition thing from any sort of beat or mood to another, I sort of seem to always be drawn to slowing down the faster beat towards the very end of that section, and then ending that section on a couple of slowed down unfinished minor type chords...and then stopping for a few seconds altogether before starting the new section all fresh.

 

I suck, don't I? lol

[Miskatonic]

Well like I've said, it has been a stumbling block trying to come up with smooth transitions. Another method I've tried is to have the faster paced part going and then all other instruments other than one guitar go silent, and this way you don't have the drum beat making the time signature blatantly obvious. You can take a solo or melody and slow it down into the opening passage of another part.

 

This way there aren't any gaps or "dead" space that will ruin the continuity.

[Eclepto Funk]

 

Are there any songs in particular that you'd recommend I look into to get a better idea about the volume changes?

 

 

Smells like Teen Spirit is an excellent example

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPQR-OsH0RQ

 

notice how they go from the loud intro to the soft first verse ... and they do that over and over again

[zemaster]

This is exactly why I don't use transitions

[Delta0311]

I dont know if you'll track what I am about to say-- but instead of the ring out or what not -- use a progression or build up to work in the change up or tempo - build up build up- and then break to a soft meodic deal or heavier more aggressive type strum or picking pattern. I cant think of a song right off the top of my head that would provide an example-- then again -- i dont know if what I am tryin to convey will make any sense!

[Taylor Davis]

I do the transition thang in my latest tune.

CYNTHIAS SONG

 

I wished to go from slow burn to fast flare up, back to slow burn and back to killer rock.

i believe i sucessfully achieved my goal.

you MUST learn two metric tons of note for note covers and then you'll have something to base your whims on.

YES is a great band and them cats are killer . I had many of their albums.

Also BREAD is way under rated.

URIAH HEAP is one of my fave bands

theres tons and tons of perfect music out there and they learned from their peers.

keep learnin' and you'll finde your way.

thanks for lettin me share

TD

[Miskatonic]

 

I dont know if you'll track what I am about to say-- but instead of the ring out or what not -- use a progression or build up to work in the change up or tempo - build up build up- and then break to a soft meodic deal or heavier more aggressive type strum or picking pattern. I cant think of a song right off the top of my head that would provide an example-- then again -- i dont know if what I am tryin to convey will make any sense!

 

 

I understand what you're saying. I gave it a shot on one of my songs where there's this buildup and the notes rise to a semi-high pitch and then there is a sequence of notes that match the very end of the buildup. The next measure is the same notes but dropped down several octaves and performed on a acoustic, which leads into an acoustic melody that provides a slow down from the faster parts before it.