Eminence Speakers... Help!

[vidnotlaw]

Okay here we go... I have the following cabinets:

 

Keep in mind that I am playing heavy down tuned DOOM Metal as you read.... also, sorry so long....

 

Orange 4x12 Eminence Swamp Thangs in X Pattern with Eminence Wizards

Orange 4x12 Celestion Vintage 30s

Orange Slant 4x12 Celestion Vintage 30s in X Pattern with Celestion G12Hs

Orange (Standard Orange Tolex) 2x12 Celestion Vintage 30s

 

The Orange 4x12 with all Celestion Vintage 30s is from around 2002 and I have played the hell out of it. It sounds huge and 'Gurthy'... nice fat round low end and great volume. I would venture to say the speakers are well broken in. I LOVE THIS CAB! It sounds great.

 

The Orange 2x12 is close sounding to the the 4x12 explained above... sounds great and using this with the 4x12 from above in a quarter stack with my Orange Rockerverb 100, it sounds killer!

 

Okay... now the issues...

 

I purchased an empty Orange Slant 4x12 as I got a GREAT deal on it and I wanted to see how the Slant compared to the regular 4x12. Well... my dumb ass had the speakers wired a little wrong... I eventually figured it out and fixed the problem. The speakers that I put in this are used (not sure if they are completely broken in yet). Now, after fixing the wiring, this cab still retains most of the gurth as the regular 4x12 but is a little more 3D and less directional. I like it! Pairing this with the regular 4x12 on the bottom is pretty damn impressive! Issue one fixed...

 

Now the other issue...

 

I purchased another empty Orange 4x12 (black tolex this time to match my Rockerverb 100, which is black)... again, got a GREAT deal on it. I did not have any more spare speakers left, so I figured since Eminence speakers were a bit cheaper, I would give them a try. I downloaded SEVERAL clips from the Eminence site (they have clips for every speaker playing the same phrases which is pretty nice for comparing). I decided on mixing Swamp Thangs with Wizards. At first, again, I had them wired wrong!!! D'OH ... I wired this one and the Slant around the same time, that is why both ended up being wrong. Well, I fixed this one as well.... but it still doesn't have the huge/gurthy low end as the others do! It sounds very stiff and not as loud as the other cabs with the celestions in them. The decibel ratings on these speakers are higher (as well as the wattage), yet they don't sound as loud. The top end is smoother (not as ice pickey), the middle is just very stiff/harsh and the bottom end is not NEARLY as big. Over all, they just don't sound as good. I even had my girlfriend come down and listen to it (she is usually not very good at hearing differences when I ask her opinion). She instantly noticed it and said the Orange with the Celestions sounded better. I didn't even tell her what to look for, I just said "listen to this" swapped the cabs and said "listen to this". I played the Eminence cab first and the Celestion cab second (played the same riff), the minute I hit the first palm muted chord on the Celestion loaded cab and followed that with a non palm muted chord, she was like "that sounds way better".

 

So, Should I play the {censored} out of these speakers and hope they break and start sounding better? Will the break in actually make that much difference? Any help would be greatly appreciated.... as I am VERY un-impressed with these Eminence speakers so far.

 

Thanks in advance for any help,

 

Vid

[Keebz]

Eminence speakers are typically a little stiffer but I can't understand why the Swamp Thang/ Wizard mix isn't beefier than the V30's!

 

Those Wizards are extremely Mid heavy and are very loud in comparison to V30's and I've heard Swamp Thangs in a 2x12 cab and it was beefy as heck!

 

Are you sure you have it wired correctly this time?

[vidnotlaw]

I'll pull the cab apart again on Tuesday.... But am pretty sure I wired it correctly this time. I re-wired both cabs together and had them open at the same time. I could swear that I wired them both the same. I'll double check though. I am really hoping it is another incorrect wiring as I am hoping for these speakers to sound a lot better than they do now!

 

Hopefully the bad wiring I had did not ruin the speakers!!!

 

Take care,

 

Vid

 

Eminence speakers are typically a little stiffer but I can't understand why the Swamp Thang/ Wizard mix isn't beefier than the V30's! Those Wizards are extremely Mid heavy and are very loud in comparison to V30's and I've heard Swamp Thangs in a 2x12 cab and it was beefy as heck! Are you sure you have it wired correctly this time?

[Toshiro]

My 2-12 with swamps is thicker than my buddy's Mesa Oversized Recto 4-12... I've never heard a Wizard, but I doubt it's killing the lows of the Swamps that much. I'm with Keebz, maybe check the wiring again?

[DVaz]

I dont know about the wzards, but when I replaced my k100s with Swamp thangs alongside the V30s in my ubercab, things got much, much beefier instantly.

 

They're very big sounding with huge grind round the 100Hz range right out of the box.

 

If they're sounding really thin then I would guess that one or more speakers are out of phase.

 

I did that with a pair of t75s in a tsl602 once - NO low end. It did cure the TSLs woolly top end though

[vidnotlaw]

Thanks for all the input/help. I'm at work all day today, so I won't be able to check the wiring until tomorrow. I'll check it again.... as I said, I hope I didn't fry the speakers with the incorrect wiring.

 

Thanks again,

 

Vid

[Cougar Hunter]

FWIW, the wizard and swamp thang are a strange combo. I have them in an Avatar 2x12.

 

If I orient the wizard on bottom, and the ST on top, I run into an overly trebly, nasty, ratty horrible tone, BUT, if I keep the Wizard away from the floor (up top), it sounds killer.

[vidnotlaw]

Interesting.... thanks for the info.! I'll keep that in mind when I open the cab up tomorrow (or tonight if I have time).

 

Take care,

 

Vid

 

 

FWIW, the wizard and swamp thang are a strange combo. I have them in an Avatar 2x12. If I orient the wizard on bottom, and the ST on top, I run into an overly trebly, nasty, ratty horrible tone, BUT, if I keep the Wizard away from the floor (up top), it sounds killer.

 

[vidnotlaw]

WOW... talk about stupid dumb little mistakes! I can't believe that I screwed up this many times wiring a {censored}ing cabinet!!! I was in too much of a hurry and just over looked some stupid things! Just paint me stupid!

 

I opened the cab back up and INSTANTLY saw the mistake! I Re-wired it... put it back together... plugged it in... and BOOM... sounds WAAAAYYYY better! I can definitely tell that the speakers are still a little stiff and need to break in, but it sounds nice. Not sure if I like it better that the 4x12 with V30s. I need to spend some more time comparing them to see which one I like best. I can't wait to break these speakers in as I know they will smooth out a bit! In fact.... I'm off to crank it now....

 

Thanks again for all your input/help (reassurance that have bouts of stupidity ),

 

Vid

[LesPaulCustom79]

Wizards are very efficient 75w speakers with a heavy magnet and an output of +103dB. Most good speakers are 99dB to 100dB. Wizards do better rear mounted in a closed back cabinet. In open back cabinets they can get some wierd counteractive sound waves going. Wizards have a big bottom end and heavy midrange as well and can drown out some treble oriented speakers. I think Red Coat Wizards are best with two of them together in a 2x12 "Orange" type cab or in a X pattern with Red Coat Governors in a 4x12 cab.