Members SongMan Posted December 8, 2003 Members Share Posted December 8, 2003 I am looking for an acoustic amp/speaker combo for my church that consist of 150 members. I will be using Larrivee and Martin Drednought with K&K pure western on both guitar. we are thinking about $500 for the amp. Let me know what i should be looking for. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Preacher Will Posted December 8, 2003 Members Share Posted December 8, 2003 There are some other things I'd like to know before making a recommendation. Are you playing solo or with a band? How many other instruments are in the band and how are they amp'ed? How many vocalists? How big a room and what are the acoustics like? What's your exisitng PA's capabilities? While there are many guys around here who use dedicated acoustic amps like the SWR Strawberry Blonde (one of my favorites), many, like myself, recommend plugging straight into the PA. I play rythmn guitar and am the lead vocalist for one of my church's praise teams. My band has a drummer with a full kit, a grand piano, an electric bass, rythmn guitar, and two backing vocalists in addition to myself. Because our sanctuary has excellent acoustics, we could play un-amplified if I could get the drummer and pianist to dial it down. But my bass player (who also doubles on rythmn and occasional lead guitar) and I plug straight into the board through a DI. I play a Taylor, my buddy plays a Fender bass and an Ibanez acoustic. There are several reasons why I strongly recommend going direct to the board:1) Unlike electric guitar amps, acoustic amps are typically designed to act evenly over the tonal spectrum, much like a PA. In fact, they are essentially small, stand alone PAs. Therefore, since you really don't need a specific amp to produce a specific tone, why not use the one you already have?2) A good mix will require that you give the sound tech control over all the signals. This is most easily accomplished if you plug into the board. Otherwise, you need to mic your amp.3) Eliminating an extra piece of equipment simplifies set-up and tear down.4) If you ever play outside the house, you don't have to schlep an extra amp.5) A big PA can produce more volume with more control than a stand alone amp. The Preacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Singin' Dave Posted December 8, 2003 Members Share Posted December 8, 2003 Have to agree with the Preacher man.....in most cases when people are asking about an acoustic guitar amp to play with in a live environment, they are better off getting a D.I. and going into a PA. In other cases, what they really need is a PA rather than an acoustic amp. However, if your church doesn't have a decent PA and/or you are looking for a nice box to take with you to coffee shops or spaces without a PA, I've heard good things about the Carvin AG100D, a 100W acoustic amp with three channels (1 for vox, 1 for acoustic guitar and a thrid for bass guitar or another acoustic or keyboards perhaps). It's basically a mini-PA w/ EQ and will run you about $480 direct from Carvin w/ shipping. I also really like my UltraSound AG-50DS2 which is being offered at Guitar Adoptions (www.guitaradoptions.com) w/ a cover and free shipping for $499.00. You can buy with confidence from Dave at this online store- very attentive and honest guy. If you do go to him, let him know you found him through this forum. This amp is a suprisingly small, clean and useful combo that has 2 channels, one for mike and one for acoustic guitar, which I sometimes use mic'd with an AT3035 for recording or stage use. You'll find many people on this forum rating these two as the best amps within this price range. Do a search. Good Luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SongMan Posted December 8, 2003 Author Members Share Posted December 8, 2003 preacher Will, Than you for the info. Let me tell you little about my church and their set up. Our sactuary is about 80 feet long and 40 feet wide with our ceiling being about 30 feet high. We have drummer, Bass player, Keyboard, pianist, Two singer and one lead singer, so total of 3 singer who are all miked. HOwever, two of the singer will be playing acoustic guitar. (larrivee and martin with K&K pure pick up) The bass player had it's own combo amp. keyboard and three singer use main speaker which gets its power from the Main floor amp. We are now trying to add an amp for our acoustic, which until now were using main speakers and amp. The reason for this upgrade is due to our main speakers not sounding its best when used for acoustic. Thank you and let me know if you need more info. David- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ryanspeer Posted December 8, 2003 Members Share Posted December 8, 2003 Well, if you're dead-set on getting an acoustic amp, like Preacher Will said, I've heard good things about the Strawberry Blonde. HOWEVER.... that being said, I'd also have to agree wholeheartedly with the rest of Will's post. I play at church as well (just 6-string rhythm right now but hope to pick up a 12-string in the next two weeks or so) and play only through the PA. One of the bigger if not biggEST differences between electric and acoustic amps (besides the voicing of the amps themselves) is the added tweeter in an acoustic amp. Granted, that's a pretty over-simplified explanation, but all that to say that your PA system will re-produce absolutely fantastic acoustic tone due to the very very similar configuration that main speakers have. I have to say also, that with two guitars and any possible effects pedals, guitar stands, notebooks, etc., having an amp to carry around would be quite the un-welcome task after about the 2nd or 3rd week, too. I've been there and found myself slimming down my setup PRETTY quickly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpoonyJank Posted December 8, 2003 Members Share Posted December 8, 2003 most PA speakers have those nice horn tweeters. You can plug anything into them and it will sound good. You never know who or what might want to plug in or mic up in the future. Amps distort the signal (in a warm favorable way) so playing direct to a PA can sound kind of bad without some kind of DI. DI's are like magic boxes when you play through a PA. I'm going to scrape the paint off mine and label one side of each dial "crappy" and the other side "awesome". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Preacher Will Posted December 8, 2003 Members Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by SongMan preacher Will, Than you for the info.Let me tell you little about my church and their set up.Our sactuary is about 80 feet long and 40 feet wide with our ceiling being about 30 feet high. We have drummer, Bass player, Keyboard, pianist, Two singer and one lead singer, so total of 3 singer who are all miked. HOwever, two of the singer will be playing acoustic guitar. (larrivee and martin with K&K pure pick up) The bass player had it's own combo amp. keyboard and three singer use main speaker which gets its power from the Main floor amp. We are now trying to add an amp for our acoustic, which until now were using main speakers and amp. The reason for this upgrade is due to our main speakers not sounding its best when used for acoustic. Thank you and let me know if you need more info. David- David, On the surface, it sounds to me like you've got a good set-up to run through a DI to the board. If, as you say, your speakers aren't up tp the job for the acoustic, are they really up to the job for the vocals? How about the piano, do you mic it or is it electric? Are you going to buy two amps for the two guitars or do you want an amp with two discrete channels so you can run both off of one amp? I'm still of the opinion that the best amplifcation for an acoustic is a good PA. Before I would invest in a dedicated acoustic amp, I would spend the money to upgrade my PA system. In fact, my road amp is a PA. In my church we run through a Mackie SR24-4 (and I can vouch for why they aren't considered rider-worthy) into Crown amps and JBL speakers. On the road, we use one or two Peavey powered mixers and Peavey 15" cabs. Simple to set up, to tear down, everything is right at hand, and weight isn't a big factor. SPL's are in the pleasant listening range, which suits the majority of our music. The downside is that the monitors aren't so hot. Inside the church, things are a bit different. 500 watt Crowns on each side run through a pair of 15" cabs and 18" subs that can rattle your teeth. Two 300 watt Crowns handle monitor duties with four different monitor mixes (one per side per amp), and everyone--even electric guitars--go through the board. (Well, that's not strictly true, we don't mic the drummer.) For electric guitars we turn the cabs towards the player and mic them. That puts maximum dynamic control of the mix into the sound tech's hands. Obviously, if I were in your shoes, I'd do the same thing. The keyboard goes into a DI and into the board. (Whirlwind's are cheap and effective for this--I own three or four of them for my wife's keyboards.) Mic the piano (unless its electric, then handle it just like the keys). To properly mic an acoustic piano you need two mics. Your two guitars go into DI boxes and into the board (Baggs Para Acoustic DI's are great choices here but Whirlwinds will do). Your bass players combo is turned towards him and becomes his monitor. Mic it. Three vocalists get three mics, natch. Total number of balanced inputs to the board, eight. Let your drummer play un-mic'd. (If you decide to mic the drummer, you'll need a minimum of three mics, preferably five.) This set-up is easy to run and will give your sound guy or band leader the ability to tailor the mix for optimal sound. If your sound is still not right, you really need to upgrade the PA. It's amazing what a difference quality amps and speakers make. The Preacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SongMan Posted December 8, 2003 Author Members Share Posted December 8, 2003 Preacher will, As you probably noticed. I am a biginner guitarist. Need bit more of simplication. I'm guessig DI is the way to go for now. What is DI? and how are they differ from plugging in to a chorus box? OH, and youre probably right about our main speaker being decent. I noticed you mention baggs DI. What do they cost? what model should i look into? any other brand of DI? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members geneb2450 Posted December 8, 2003 Members Share Posted December 8, 2003 Check out some of the Carvin PA systems too. Big bang for the bucks ... here's one -> http://www.carvin.com/cgi-bin/Isearch.exe?CFG=2&P2=620-805&P1=SYS1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Preacher Will Posted December 9, 2003 Members Share Posted December 9, 2003 Originally posted by SongMan Preacher will, As you probably noticed. I am a biginner guitarist. Need bit more of simplication. I'm guessig DI is the way to go for now. What is DI? and how are they differ from plugging in to a chorus box? OH, and youre probably right about our main speaker being decent. I noticed you mention baggs DI. What do they cost? what model should i look into? any other brand of DI?Thank you Songman, As I understand it, DI stands for Direct Injection. It's basically a box that changes your 1/4" unbalanced guitar output into a balanced XLR, microphone-type input. While most boards have the capability to accept 1/4" plugs, you get a cleaner signal with the others. Most DI boxes, such as the EDB Whirlwinds, not only change the plug configuration, but also include switches to attenuate the signal for when you're running hot pickups or coming from a preamp. They also often include a ground lift. These will run you about $20-30.00. The Baggs is a much more sophisticated DI that includes a top notch three stage equalizer with sweepable mids and a preamp. There are other similar boxes from other manufacturers, but the Baggs generally gets top marks. Baggs Para Acoustic DI's (PADI) run $200 or so on the street but are always available new on ebay for around $125.00. DIs differ from a chorus in that they don't change your signal (except for the equalizer). As far as looks are concerned, they're pretty much the same--a small stomp box about the size of a couple cigarette packs. I've recently been looking into the Boss AD-5 (I think that's the right model number). Its a DI for acoustic guitars similar to the Baggs PADI that adds a chorus and reverb to the preamp and equalizer. At around 2 1/2 to 3 bills its on the high side, but Boss has a good reputation and this will do pretty much all the signal tweaking an acoustic guitarist needs. The Preacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SongMan Posted December 9, 2003 Author Members Share Posted December 9, 2003 Preacher will,I need little more into on CHrous vs DI. SO,if i buy a DI, it will substitude for Chourus and more? or is it used for taltally different thing? Do you use chorus? Thank again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted December 9, 2003 Members Share Posted December 9, 2003 Originally posted by SongMan Preacher will,I need little more into on CHrous vs DI. SO,if i buy a DI, it will substitude for Chourus and more? or is it used for taltally different thing? Do you use chorus?Thank again Apples and oranges. Chorus is an effect sometimes used to thicken the sound of an acousitc guitar. Pretty useless IMHO. DI refers to plugging right into your PA instead of an seperate amp. A DI box changes the guitar's signal from high impedence to low impedence so that it can travel longer distances to the mixer without signal loss. They're available from about $30 on up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SongMan Posted December 9, 2003 Author Members Share Posted December 9, 2003 I am now looking into Baggs DI. I guess i can get one on ebay for 120 dollars. Let me know how this perticular model and price sounds to you all.Thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SongMan Posted December 10, 2003 Author Members Share Posted December 10, 2003 ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pcs2000 Posted December 10, 2003 Members Share Posted December 10, 2003 Originally posted by SongMan ??? I don't think you could go wrong with the LR Baggs Para-DI preamp. It has received many very positive comments on the HC Effects database. I am thinking about picking one up since the $120 price tag is pretty reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Adoptions Posted December 11, 2003 Members Share Posted December 11, 2003 Don't forget to take a look at the New UltraSound Ultra PDI as well. Reviews will be hitting the magazines soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarboy716 Posted December 12, 2003 Members Share Posted December 12, 2003 DI into the PA all the way I either use a behringer DI (which is my fav actually) or this other, which is a small blue box...i dont know the name, sorry I've tried over 3 different boxes, and they all sound pretty similair to me, but I think the behringer actually sounds best ya gotta love pa systems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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