Clarinet to Sax

[sjepstein]

Hello, all. I'm hoping someone on this forum might have some advice. I have played clarinet for almost 30 years--I'm a pretty good amatuer, and I can (after warming up...) get pretty high in the altissimo range--I can get above the high G.

 

My question is: I've just bought a ("value") alto saxophone, and I am suprised at having some difficulty at sounding the lowest three or four notes on the instrument. I've read that there are differences between sax and clarinet embouchures, and I've got a pretty good clarinet embouchure, but I am hoping someone might have more specific advice.

 

Some other information: Yes, I am still using the stock mouthpiece... And I have tried the 2.5 reed the horn came with, as well as some 3 reeds I bought. (FYI, on the clarinet, I usually use 3.5s on a B45 on an E11...) I have also seen some comments that the lower notes would be easier with the softer reed, but so far, I'm getting a bit better result with the harder reed.

 

Any advice and information would be greatly appreciated. (That is, taking as a given that I do know all about the disadvantages of budget horns and stock mouthpieces... )

 

Thanks!

 

Scott

[Lambros]

Hi, welcome to the forum! I can definitely relate with you and I basically learned clarinet after learning saxophone because I doubled on alto and baritone in school and that was even more pronounced a change in mouthpieces.

Definitely get a better mouthpiece, medium tip opening, 5-7 numerically, preferably hard rubber. I recommend that you stick with using harder reeds, too, that you tried, 3 or 3.5 because your embouchure is developed and advanced enough so that it can be applied with some fine tuning to an alto sax mouthpiece, because you play a strong clarinet reed strength.

I play soprano and bass clarinet along with soprano, alto and tenor sax. What I found to be true in terms of reed strength is staying consistent with the grades for each horn. Ligatures, too, are very important as well

 

Any new horn, pro, intermediate, student/budget) is also going to have pad/setup issues initially especially the larger pads. These have to be set so that they seal completely (we know this to be the case, only too well... with any loosely set or leaking key on a clarinet.)

What happens on sax is different beacuse the instrument vents conically. What the clarinet player experiences with sax is almost no resistance in getting the instrument to generate tone and that can definitely be unnerving. Leaking pads behave very differently, too. Essentially, you'll get good tone in certain areas of a given register but it will be erratic sound wise, and hard to control for consistency and pitch when you get to other areas. This could also be signs of a reed on the way out or too weak in grade if the reed is new. Understanding how all of it comes together seems like a never ending process initially.

 

Definitely have someone seat the pads and check for other issues and look for a mouthpiece similar to the saxophone equivalent of a Vandoren B45 (slotted square chamber, medium tip opening.)

Through lots of trial and error, I like playing Selmer C* mouthpices on both of my clarinets, V12 #3 for the soprano and believe it or not, I prefer tenor sax reeds for bass clarinet. Don't even get me started on ligatures...

Scott, I'll check this thread from time to time if you have specific questons to ask me.

 

Lambros

[sjepstein]

Lambros,

 

Thanks very much!

 

I would plan on getting an appropriate mouthpiece some point soon--soon being in a month or six weeks or so. In the mean time, I do tend to believe in trying to make it work with difficult equipment... E.g., it wasn't until I could start hitting high notes through a rubber Bundy with stock mouthpiece that my teacher first suggested that the B45 would make things easier. Likewise, when I started on guitar, it was with a nylon string with high action... I figure if I can get this to work, then using better equipment will be a breeze...

 

But thanks for clarifying that I shouldn't go to the softer reeds. I will keep plugging away for now, and look into mouthpieces later in the Spring...

 

Scott

[TimOBrien]

Lambros really covered it.

 

Personally, I think you're gonna have low-note problems on most any cheap sax.

 

I just got a pro Yamaha 82Z tenor last year and one of the most amazing things about it was that I could run from the very lowest notes to the very highest without ANY problems at all.... notes that I could not hit before on any horn.

[Lambros]

Tim, the 82Z sounds like a dream horn, I like Yamaha saxes. I had a great 62R soprano that I had to sell a couple of years ago...it was one of the saddest moments for me. I didn't care for the few 875 sopranos that I tried out or even the Serie III. About a year and half ago, I bought a silver Selmer Serie II Paris soprano and I had the same experience you had with the 82Z. It basically took the character of each mouthpiece I played on it to an unbelievable level I never had with my old horn. I think the newest custom Selmers, Yanis and Yamahas are leaving the shop with about as thorough a setup as possible. It really does make a difference. What are you using on the 82Z? I have an very early 4 digit serial # silver Guardala New York tenor, awesome horn, imho.

[Lambros]

Scott, any time bro. Don't be a glutton for punishment though, and get that good mouthpiece soon. Bear in mind that the hard rubber Bundy you played in school is a far better instrument than most low end wood clarinets nowadays. The B45 brought out its character. Did you ever take the Selmer C* route?

 

 

Lambros, Thanks very much! I would plan on getting an appropriate mouthpiece some point soon--soon being in a month or six weeks or so. In the mean time, I do tend to believe in trying to make it work with difficult equipment... E.g., it wasn't until I could start hitting high notes through a rubber Bundy with stock mouthpiece that my teacher first suggested that the B45 would make things easier. Likewise, when I started on guitar, it was with a nylon string with high action... I figure if I can get this to work, then using better equipment will be a breeze... But thanks for clarifying that I shouldn't go to the softer reeds. I will keep plugging away for now, and look into mouthpieces later in the Spring... Scott

[Pilot]

Well, I dunno. I've been playing the clarinet for the last 50 years, though not a lot recently. Just bought a Keilwerth ST 90 alto out of pure nostalgia as I haven't played a sax for a long time. Amazed myself by picking up the sax and playing it as though it was only yesterday. No trouble with any of the notes though I had to loosen the embouchure for the bottom ones. The mouthpiece is a no name of some sort with a 65 thou tip (1.65mm) which is fairly soft, and a Rico 2 1/2 reed. Tone is very good after a bit of a warm up. I guess my lip is a bit soft too judging by that combination.

 

Bryan

[sjepstein]

Thanks to everyone for their advice.

 

Yesterday was "day 3," and I have been able to start reliably getting most of the low notes. Except for one where I think there is a pad issue. What I found was that initially, when having trouble getting the tone out, my immediate "clarinet" instinct was to tighten the embouchure. I'm finding with the sax that the key seems to be to keep the embouchure loose, and add diaphragm support.

 

But, thanks, everyone!

 

Scott

[Lambros]

It's been a few days since I've checked in with a re: and I wish you continued enjoyment with the sax as it is definitely not clarinet-like in its playability.

 

Get that mouthpiece soon and you'll see a day and night difference...guaranteed

 

Lambros

[sjepstein]

Thanks.

 

I have been able to start hitting the low notes, and finding the fingerings translating pretty well. Although I must admit it's been easier to hit the very high altisimo notes than the low notes...

 

In any case, I am now looking into mouthpieces... Any suggestions? As I may have mentioned before, on clarinet, I'm using a standard Vandoren B45 and an Eddie Daniels cloth ligature.

 

What should I be looking for in an alto mouthpiece?

 

(I do also think I want to go the cloth ligature route on the alto, too... )

 

Scott

 

It's been a few days since I've checked in with a re: and I wish you continued enjoyment with the sax as it is definitely not clarinet-like in its playability. Get that mouthpiece soon and you'll see a day and night difference...guaranteed Lambros

[Lambros]

Scott, good to hear from you, bro. I had a similar lig that Rovner made to their Eddie Daniels clarinet lig, they are made for saxophone, too. I'd recommend looking into Vandoren (A45, A55) and Selmer (D*, E) hard rubber mouthpieces. You can worry about a straight ahead Jazz piece (Meyer, Lakey, etc) down the road.

[gilbertcross]

 

Lambros really covered it. Personally, I think you're gonna have low-note problems on most any cheap sax.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. A good friend did the same thing and had an awful time with the lower notes. He picked up a much nicer used sax a little later and the problem was solved overnight.

[Saxy]

Thanks. I have been able to start hitting the low notes, and finding the fingerings translating pretty well. Although I must admit it's been easier to hit the very high altisimo notes than the low notes... In any case, I am now looking into mouthpieces... Any suggestions? As I may have mentioned before, on clarinet, I'm using a standard Vandoren B45 and an Eddie Daniels cloth ligature. What should I be looking for in an alto mouthpiece? (I do also think I want to go the cloth ligature route on the alto, too... ) Scott

 

This is pretty much the exact situation that I was in about 9 months ago only a month after I picked up tenor from clarinet. I was a great clarinet player, but not so much on sax. This was because of my embouchure. The sax is much looser and I found it easier to hit the higher notes too because I used a tight embouchure and was used to it. Don't worry, you'll get used to the sax like I did and get better.

As for mouthpieces, I play on a northway and it's worked out great for me. Go with whatever feels right to you

[sjepstein]

I ended up with the Vandoren A35 and the Rovner dark rubber. (And a full care kit, too... )

 

Pretty much, now, everything seems to be mostly working. I think there's one pad that needs to be adjusted, but that's about all...

 

Scott

[Lambros]

That sounds good, Scott! I guess your sticking with the medium strength reeds too. As you're and getting to know the sax, it makes a huge difference to get the resistence level just right. Again, in the future don't rule out a metal ligature... It's not that they're better than Rovners, just different sounding overall.