"Big Band"-type reinforcement

[wesg]

I've started playing a fair bit of big band music over the last year -- much more than with my rock band -- and have started to take a keen interest in being able to get these types of groups sounding really good. I got some great advice last year (particularly from Andy) for a show I did in an extremely reverberant room and it worked out spectacularly well. The advice was basically: "don't mike the band". Boy it did ever work great (http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=12558319&q=hi&newref=1 -- Zoom H2 in front of the band).

 

The groups I'm playing with (four different groups with significant player overlap) vary in size from 6 to 17 pieces, playing styles from Dixieland through Swing and up to (but not including) Bebop. And some modern schmaltz (Moondance, Don't Know Why, etc.). Most pieces are instrumental, but a typical programme will have about 30% numbers featuring a vocalist.

 

Most often, the venues are small and indoors, so no reinforcement is usually needed. I have been trying out different piano speaker positioning (I am the pianist), watching the hired/house sound guys very carefully to see what works (and what doesn't) and trying out different, conservative things on gigs when I run sound.

 

Piano positioning - I run a single NX55P speaker with nothing but piano in it. HPF is set for full range operation, and I usually turn down the bass a big and turn up the treble. I often turn the piano's internal reverb off indoors, and put the speaker about 3' behind myself, off to one side, pointing toward the center of the audience. The speaker stands on its end so the horn is at the top, giving me an 80 degree horizontal and 50 degree vertical dispersion. The goal with this positioning is to have the keyboard sound mostly like an unamplified acoustic piano with the lid open -- driving the room from the stage (no piano in FOH), so that the band can "self mix".

 

Bass positioning - Bass player does basically what I do, except he doesn't worry much about directionality.

 

Vocals - Prior to my input, the bands with vocal and/or annoucement mics have used either the bass player's spare amp or a Peavey KB-100 positioned front and center for vocals when there was no sound technician. What I am doing now to is to put a single NX55P up on a pole, centered behind the band. This allows me to hear the vocalist well, making my job easy, and seems to help the band work better with dynamics....we know when the singer is being quiet, for example. The vocalist is usually about five feet off-center, and the band leader uses the same mic for announcements and as a solo mic (clarinet).

 

Drummers - What can I say? I'm blessed. I work mostly with two drummers. Both are great; one has good volume control, the other has spectacular volume control.

 

Playing outdoors, the local sound guy we work with most takes a feed from the bass and piano amps and does some area mic'ing. He provides some huge speakers on sticks and a couple of large wedge monitors in a "criss-cross" shape in front of the band. I'm not sure exactly what's in the monitors, as I often have difficulty hearing the singer and horns when I'm working a bigger band (two or three rows in front of me). Oh, the local guy uses a two-mic drum setup, I have hear his FOH mix with other similar bands and it is almost always very good.

 

Any suggestions for if/when I graduate to reinforcing SMALL outdoor gigs? My thinking is to throw up a couple of dynamics or pencil condensers 5' in front of the band, and use the monitors to provide a bit of foldback for the horns (to try and simulate what we hear indoors), but to still let the band to basically self-mix and carry the FOH instead of the PA. Maybe a second set of monitors for the rhythm section, so that we can hear the horns properly.

 

What about providing a solo mic for the band leader who seems to want one? Should I be looking for a 57 with a switch? Do I put the solo mic on a gooseneck so they can point it up in the air when done? Can I just leave an open solo mic? Remember I am busy playing the piano, so will not be touchng faders at all.

 

I am running a single NX55P right now, I was a bit worried the other night in a large (for me), packed room that it would not be enough, but I was also worried about excess reverberation if we got loud. At what point should I be looking at running two speakers for a band like this? Are there advantages putting a speaker at each side of the band, or should I stay center-clustered to reduce phasing effects? At what point should I be moving the speakers to a more traditional position, like beside the band? Should I ever do this, given that I am mixing from the stage? When should I think about putting the rhythm section into the FOH?

 

The show I did the other night went really spectacularly well, BTW. Not a peep of feedback, plenty of volume for the vocals, and I am told the mix out front was great and that every word was clear in the back row. The room was basically a high school gymnatorium (but attached to a church), big enough for a basketball court, player benches and a stage. We played on the pull-out stage steps as the church organ was on the main stage. I raised the single speaker so the horn was about 10 feet off the ground, centered in the room, about 20 feet from the front row. I was actually really worried about that, as I played two shows the night before with "house sound", speakers behind the band, and spent several agonizing seconds listening to the howl of feedback as random knobs were twiddled.

 

Thanks for any input. I've done a ton of reading and I'm enjoying applying the knowledge I've gained thus far.

 

Wes

[Shaster]

 

Any suggestions for if/when I graduate to reinforcing SMALL outdoor gigs? My thinking is to throw up a couple of dynamics or pencil condensers 5' in front of the band, and use the monitors to provide a bit of foldback for the horns (to try and simulate what we hear indoors), but to still let the band to basically self-mix and carry the FOH instead of the PA. Maybe a second set of monitors for the rhythm section, so that we can hear the horns properly.

 

What about providing a solo mic for the band leader who seems to want one? Should I be looking for a 57 with a switch? Do I put the solo mic on a gooseneck so they can point it up in the air when done? Can I just leave an open solo mic? Remember I am busy playing the piano, so will not be touchng faders at all.

 

I am running a single NX55P right now, I was a bit worried the other night in a large (for me), packed room that it would not be enough, but I was also worried about excess reverberation if we got loud. At what point should I be looking at running two speakers for a band like this? Are there advantages putting a speaker at each side of the band, or should I stay center-clustered to reduce phasing effects? At what point should I be moving the speakers to a more traditional position, like beside the band? Should I ever do this, given that I am mixing from the stage? When should I think about putting the rhythm section into the FOH?

 

 

Wes

 

Not trying to be cheeky but when you say "at what point..." my immediate response is to reply, you'll know it when you get there. When one speaker isn't enough, then you'll know you need two. When you can't hear the solos, then you'll know you need a solo mic.

 

IIRC my suggestion last time was to possibly have a solo mic, and just possibly a kick mic, if you're the bass drum is so small/quiet that it doesn't even reproduce a big band style kick. I believe I said, mic what you might need, and leave them off unless you really do - I still feel that way.

 

Why a 57 with a switch, why not a 58 with a switch - maybe better suited to vocals and so on.

 

I also recall the theme of keeping it simple. If you ever really need to start micing a lot of the band, maybe that would be the time to get a mixer "baby sitter" so that you're not distracted from your music duties.

 

 

 

[wesg]

Thanks, Shaster;

 

I remember you were able to give some good advice on that original thread, too. Geez I wish I could find it. You're right, you did tell me to mic what I might need and leave it off until I need it. Good advice I had somehow forgotten.

 

My main worry is bumping into a situation where I don't have enough rig-for-the-gig. The other night, I used one mic, one mic stand, one pole, one speaker. I packed three mics, three mic stands, two poles, two speakers, a mixer, and a 31ch graphic.

 

I was initially worried after setting up the single speaker that it wasn't going to be enough. So I spoke into the mic and got assurances from the band leader that it was plenty loud at the back. And then I gave the singer my mic position lecture.

 

A 58 with a switch for a solo mic. Yeah, that might just do the trick. I was thinking of the 57 just because people tend to recognize it as an instrument mic. From my POV the 58 and 57 are basically interchangeable. Aside from the proximity effect due to grille size, I can't for the life of me hear a difference between the two.

 

Wes