Members gruve Posted April 5, 2009 Members Share Posted April 5, 2009 This question gets asked a lot, but it seems like most people are asking on behalf of their 8 yr old kid or a mother in law or something. I've played accoustic guitar on and off for years but I've always wanted to learn piano. In recent years, the rise in popularity of piano in pop songs from coldplay, one republic, kean, etc have really underscored my desire, originally inspired by billy joel, elton john, john lenon-imagine, and funny enough this scene from the majestic has always stuck in my head as "i wish i could do that" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rifkRgxhEa8. If the link doesnt show just search for jim carrey playing the piano in the majestic... he starts playing about 3 minutes into the clip.... At this point, I've done quite a bit of looking. I'd like to find a digital piano which i will use mostly with headphones. I want the action to be similar enough to an accoustic piano that I won't have a huge issue going from one to the other. Yamaha, Korg, and Casio seem to have good options under 1000, especially looking at ebay and crags. SO, if my interest is to learn mostly pop and classic rock songs with some dabbling in classical and jazz, what's the best option for me? I'm looking at the Casio PX 320, Yamaha P85, Korg 250, maybe Kwai MP5? Totally open to suggestions. I want a digital because i can practice quietly. I want something that i can grow into/with and not have to replace... at least for several years if ever. ThANKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted April 5, 2009 Members Share Posted April 5, 2009 Kawai MP5 might work the best for you. It's the best piano sound in that price range, as far as I've heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChromaLord Posted April 5, 2009 Members Share Posted April 5, 2009 For playing porno underscores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted April 5, 2009 Members Share Posted April 5, 2009 Why the hell not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members augerinn Posted April 5, 2009 Members Share Posted April 5, 2009 I'm very content with my Yamaha Clavinova. Mine is the CLP-820, but there's about a zillion different models. You can find 'em cheap 2nd hand. I want a digital because i can practice quietly Quiet is relative. Hammer action keybeds make a LOT of noise. I live in an upstairs apartment, and I'm prohibited from playing early or late because the "thumping" from the keybed transmits through the floor and disturbs my neighbor. Even with the headphones on, my dughter says she can here the keys in the next room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eric Posted April 5, 2009 Members Share Posted April 5, 2009 I'm working on an article for Keyboard Magazine that will address this type of question nicely with the current crop of digital pianos. It will probably be in the June or July issue; not sure as I don't have my final editorial deadline yet. I don't have any hardcore recommendations at this time, but the usual advice applies: go to your local store and spend time with Yamaha P, Casio Privia, Roland FP series instruments. I am also checking out the Kawai ES3 and a couple of M-Audio 88 note boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gruve Posted April 5, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 5, 2009 well who knows, adult movie underscores may provide a nice revenue stream on the side! Anyway, yeah the debate seems to be between Casio PX, Yamaha P, and a few others. By quiet I meant that i wouldnt have to be in the garage like one would on a set of drums or something. I have a newborn in the house, but as long as i'm not jamming full blast on an amp i should be ok. I think the things i'd be looking for are feel and sound accuracy through the headphones so i know what it's supposed to sound like when i play an accoustic. I do see a lot of discussion between models and differentiating the polyphony between them. Seems like a few offer 128, but others much less. I'm not sure how much that's worth. Also, on the techy side, it seems like some are offering USB connections now, how important is that? I suppose one other thing is the pedals... I've heard some only take their own pedal and users have complained that they'd like to add others. Again, i'm not sure how this comes into play. I'm gonna head over to guitar center and see if i can do some homework, but i'd be curious to hear your feedback as well. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted April 5, 2009 Members Share Posted April 5, 2009 MP5 has 192 note polyphony, the greatest of those you are pondering about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members r05c03 Posted April 5, 2009 Members Share Posted April 5, 2009 who needs that much polyphony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted April 5, 2009 Members Share Posted April 5, 2009 Layered piano scale runs with massive sustain pedal usage does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grantlack Posted April 5, 2009 Members Share Posted April 5, 2009 i've got a privia px-800 that i scored for less than half price on fleabay due to some very minor shipping damage. i grew up on a baby grand, and when i checked out guitar center's offerings imo it had better feel than most of the cheaper (sub-clavinova) yamahas. very happy with its capabilities, i'll pick up something more suited to the task whenever i venture into synths. if i'm not mistaken they've got a rebate going on casios @ gc right now, so it may be worth investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 I frequently play my Privia PX-320 with headphones. It has two headphone outs for some odd reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gruve Posted April 6, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 well i went to gc yesterday and they were lowering the gates as i pulled up... why cant they close at 6 like everyone else on a sunday. Anyway failing that i went to youtube to check out different models. I knew the sound quality wouldn't do justice but i'd hoped that i'd find consistencies between different clips of the same models and use that as a basis to make an initial judgement on sound quality. What i found was: Casio PX320 seemed to be the most artificial sounding. I suppose my ear is honed from the many hours of listening to midi music playing nintendo... so even the slightest hint of zelda or castlevania strikes a nerve... not in a good way. Korg SP 250 seemed to be the next step up and was pretty darn good. It sounded real for the most part, but there was some hint of shallowness or artificiality, which may very well have been the crummy recording. Yamaha P140 seemed clearly better than the Korg. It sounded like a real piano and really only seemed to lack a little fullness which again could have been the recording. CP33 was also about this level Kawai MP5 seemed to be about the same as the Yamaha in terms of sound quality. The clear winner though was the Roland FP 4. The recordings I found sounded just like a recording of a real accoustic piano. I could not have identified it as a DP if i'd had my eyes closed. Now the real question is where's the price point. What i'm hoping is when i get to the store i wont be able to tell the difference between the PX 320 and the FP 4 because then i can walk out of there happy having spent half the money. Also, at 1300 bucks for the roland, we're approaching Gibson Les Paul territory (long time wish list item) and in terms of retaining value, I would imagine DP's go the way of the computer rather than the way of a classic like the gibson does. Anyway, hopefully i can do a little investigation over lunch or something. Can anyone shed more light on these models? I wonder if they all come with stands and pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 Anyway failing that i went to youtube to check out different models. I knew the sound quality wouldn't do justice but i'd hoped that i'd find consistencies between different clips of the same models and use that as a basis to make an initial judgement on sound quality. That was still a bad idea. One generally has no clue as to what equipment was used to record the audio portion of the video. Could be anything from a cell phone to a video camera with mediocre mic. The Privia PX-320 at least comes with a cheap damper pedal. Most digital pianos do. And stand is typically not standard. A 3-pedal foot controller for more accurately simulating the behavior of a real piano is also not standard for most of them. One caveat about the PX-320 - the 3-pedal accessory for it requires the optional wooden stand. Dunno about the other models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members akliner Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 who needs that much polyphony? Well, since we're talking about PIANO in this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 A real acoustic has, what , a 92 note polyphonic limit, right? Extra poly above that though would be useful on a digi-piano if one was making use of the sequencer, which is included on a number of models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spaceman Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 I frequently play my Privia PX-320 with headphones. It has two headphone outs for some odd reason. Presumably for use by student + teacher in a classroom with many students playing pianos.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 A real acoustic has, what , a 92 note polyphonic limit, right? Actually, no. If you play a lot of passages with a lot of sustain pedal action, it can get to around 200 notes playing most complex Rachmaninoff pieces. Do the math: 88 keys, plus repeated notes, plus overlapped chords.... yes, 192 poly is VERY nice to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 Actually, no. If you play a lot of passages with a lot of sustain pedal action, it can get to around 200 notes playing most complex Rachmaninoff pieces. Do the math: 88 keys, plus repeated notes, plus overlapped chords.... yes, 192 poly is VERY nice to have. Still 8 notes short of the 200 note poly requirement. Ergo, the MP5 sux, dood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spaceman Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 Actually, no. If you play a lot of passages with a lot of sustain pedal action, it can get to around 200 notes playing most complex Rachmaninoff pieces. Do the math: 88 keys, plus repeated notes, plus overlapped chords.... yes, 192 poly is VERY nice to have. I don't think so.When you strike the same note again it doesn't count as one additional note.Assuming you're not layering different sounds, the most you can get to is 88 by playing every single note (and that would sound terrible). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 Where's a real piano tech when you need on on this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 I don't think so.When you strike the same note again it doesn't count as one additional note. Oh, but it does. When you repeat the same note, there ARE some harmonics left of the previous strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gruve Posted April 6, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 alright so i did a run to gc finally. Unfortunately they only had the casio 120 and 320 the yamaha p85 and p140 and the roland fp7. SO i'm still missing the yamaha cp33, korg sp250, and kawai mp5... ill take the roland fp7 as a fair sub for the fp4. I tried all of these with and without headphones too to get a better idea of the actual sound of the instrument. What i found was that in sound quality the px120 was probably the worst, although not bad, the 320 i think sounded better, but that might just be a mental thing because its a higher number... they were pretty similar. The yamaha p85 seemed to be weaker than the p140 in terms of volume. This one had really good rich sound both on the headphones and had much better sound on the speakers than the casios. I also tried the roland FP7 and it too had very good sound both on the speakers and especially the headphones. It easily had the best sound of all of these. Beyond that however, I learned that the sound is only a portion of the DP. In fact i found it less important than feel. Since all sounded pretty good and convincing, the real differentiation was the feel. The casios and the P85 from yamaha felt somewhat plasticy and kinda had that clicky plasticy sound when you hammered on them... like legos clicking together. The FP7 didnt have a lego feeling, but the keyboard was still a little light feeling. The Yamaha p140 had an amazing feel. The keys were heavy and thick feeling. I'm no piano player but this felt the most like any accoustic piano ive ever hammered on. At this point, it would be really valuable to find a Korg SP250 and that Kawai MP5 everyones talking about. If their action is plasticy or not as satisfying as the yamaha p140's, i think my decision is made. Does anyone have any comparison of them? I'd really like to know how they feel vs the p140. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Pro Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 You see, the thing is that there are intermediate stages of quality in DP's. If any single piano was perfect we'd all own it and the others wouldn't exist. And to justify the "good, better, best" price modeling, each unit has it's advantages and disadvantages to allow it to fit the under-$1k, mid-$1k, upper $1k-$2 area. To add to the problem, not all keyboards are sold in the major MI stores... Kawai in particular tends to be found more commonly in the Mom & Pop piano stores. The Korg SP250 simply isn't that popular and thus not widely carried. You're doing good... your findings so far are pretty much spot-on. Buying a DP, especially your first, is a very personal decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kennychaffin Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 who needs that much polyphony? You do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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