A bit confused

[Uh_Me]

I've just recently really started work on improving my voice. My comfortable range is c3 to d5. I use those notes all the time and they aren't squeaky or unstable or shouted out. But I found a c5 that I "can't hit": Meat Loafs Bat out of Hell. At the end where he hits the songs big notes, I start getting light headed and at one point my leg started to go numb. My note is unstable and warbling all over the place. WTF is happening?

[WRGKMC]

Sounds to me like you either have a medical issue or singing issue where you're hyper ventilating. Learning to sing properly always takes priority over all other technical aspects. Things like range are only a small part in a big picture. What many beginners get in trouble with is trying to sing rock songs before they can even sing in a clear voice and they wind up hurting themselves. Singing should never be painful. You feel pain, you're definitely doing something wrong. The trick is to learn what you're doing wrong and correct it so your exercise builds, not destroys.

 

My first advice is get a teacher or mentor. You cant know what you're doing wrong on your own, mainly because you don't hear yourself as others hear you. Much of the sound you hear gets to the ear directly through your skull. The easy way to realize this is stick your fingers in your ears. You will hear a bassy muted tone that's actually very loud. Others don't hear that, only you do. What others hear is what you hear missing when you plug your ears.

 

I'm not an expert, but I've been singing for nearly 50 years and spent a lifetime singing with other pros. I've learned some tricks that are extremely valuable and essential. Two main areas are proper breathing and pronunciation of words while producing tones. There's an old trick that dates back centuries that's been used to teach singers to breathe properly. You simply light a candle and sing into it. If you blow it out while singing, you aren't turning wind into sound, you're simply blowing too much air for the sound you're producing.

 

This is where most beginners screw up. They think those rock singers are bellowing out huge amounts of air to produce those loud rock tones and they try and do the same by yelling at the top of their lungs. When you do that you not only destroy your voice box, but you also loose any kind of vocal range you may have. The harder you try the more difficult the high notes become.

 

What rock singers use is a guttural voice which is created when the back of the throat is closed. The actual air needed is even less then a normal speaking voice because its being carefully regulated. In front of a mic it sounds like they are yelling but if you take the mic away they are actually very quiet. Learning how to do this well, only comes after you have a strongly developed normal singing voice.

 

Ever notice how singers who have an extremely good clear voice have the best rock vocals? Paul McCartney is the first best example I can come up with. His clean vocal range and his pronunciation is phenomenal. He talks allot on the topic buts says he really has to be in great shape and warmed up before he can produce those scorching rock tones well. The man can definitely Yodel out some rock tones.

 

Compare that to a yeller who destroyed his voice very early on like Joe Cocker. It took him years to rebuild his voice after the early days and if you compare the differences it begins to make a little more sense. Dylan is another who did some serious damage. If you listen to him sing Lay Lady lay you'd think it was Neil Diamond singing that song. Bob is a classic example of someone who use technique to cover up his lack of rudimentary scale training early on. If he had spent a little more time working scales, his voice would likely be much more tolerable to allot more people. There again, you don't have to be a great singer to earn a paycheck and be popular. Being the worst at what you do can make you just as well known.

 

Since I cant hear you sing nor view what you're actually trying to do, my advice is limited. I suspect you're trying to pump your lungs up to yell and you're putting way too much pressure on the lungs. This forces too much air into your bloodstream and makes you light headed. Any kind of colds or congestion, smoking, improper diet etc can make this problem dangerous. I've known of singers who have dies of strokes because they let their bodies get out of shape and tried to do things much too tasking for them. You have to be the most physically fit person in the room if you want to have a big emotional impact on the audience. There's no way to fake it. Just look at old rockers like Mick Jagger. The man jogs 5 miles a day to keep in shape so he can do a 2+ hour rock show. The trail of rock singers who attempted to sing at those high levels without being in shape don't last long. Meat Loaf is a good example of that. I think he was in the spotlight for a couple of years and then disappeared. Jagger has been doing it for what, 50+ years and is still touring?

 

A mans got to know his limitations. you feel bad after singing, see a doctor. Learning to sing aint worth dying over.

[Uh_Me]

I really appreciate that well informed post. It just confuses me that I can hit the note pretty easily on other songs, but am having such a hard time with this one. I'll try it again, paying more attention to how I'm breathing and making the tone and see what I come up with. Thanks again.

[WRGKMC]

Believe me I have the same issues all the time. Its not unique to your situation.

 

Best explanation I can give you involves vocal tone. Tone comes from an number of factors. Length of the vocal cords, chest size, persons weight, size of the throat etc. If you break all that down and use the analogy of a speaker cab, and think of the cab size vs the driver, a larger drive and a larger box can give you more bass tone when the two are in resonance with each other. The driver needs just the right amount of air to excite the air mass inside the box to produce rich tones.

 

Our vocal chords, chest and throat work in the same manor. When the vocal cord length is right for the air in back of it, you get rich resonation. When you don't have a match, you have lousy tone. You could go into it deeper of course but that's the basics. We'll call the two, vocal cords and resonant chamber to make it simple.

 

Problems begin when you try to imitate other singers. No two people have the same vocal cords or resonant chamber so its impossible to sound exactly the same as another person. You can master things like pronunciation, accent, pitch and even come close to the tones but never and exact match.

 

What can happen is by copying someone else's voice who is too far out of line with your own voice is you can stunt or outright damage your own natural voice.

 

Next question is, what is a natural voice. Example: Listen to anything Frank Sinatra sings including all the copy material he does. He always has his own tones. He never tries to imitate other peoples voices, he simply uses his own voice and does his own version of the songs. Elvis Presley is another. He has those same tones on every song he ever sang. Instantly recognizable even when you've never heard the song before.

 

There are a few singers who are gifted enough to step into someone else's shoes and be a close enough match to someone else but they are rare indeed. When Van Halen lost David Lee Roth, they were wise enough not to try and find a clone. They went with someone who had experience and write new material around that person.

 

So the answer to your question doesn't involve pitch as much as it does tone. You may be able to hit that pitch copying one mans tone and fail to hit that pitch copying another mans tone. You are unable to expand your Cavity to match the vocal cord length because you just aren't physically the same as that person and all the practice in the world wont change that.

 

Best advice I have is, if you're going to do copy material, choose material that's close to your own voice.

How do you know what your own voice is? Well that's what separates the pros from the amateurs. Pros have an uncanny ability to hear others as they hear themselves. They also know their own limitations.

 

Things that can help - Mix the cover material and your mic through headphones and always keep your mic level slightly lower then the other guy singing. This will make you exercise you skills more to produce the tones. Next, match him with your own natural voice, don't try and clone him.

Next, when you aren't doing well on one piece of material, give it a rest and move on for awhile. Always keep at least a half dozen projects in the hopper as alternatives so you don't get stale focusing on just one. you can always come back and revisit later. The music isn't going anyplace.

 

 

[WRGKMC]

Other items important to focus on to develop your own voice of course is a good workout regimen, practicing scales, feeding the mind with new ideas, hearing new music, living new experiences. As I said, a Tutor is best but if you train yourself, your own self development must be more important then anything you do with others.

 

Reason is, you cant inspire others to improve their skills if you aren't inspired to elevate your own skill levels.

 

In order to do this you have to maintain your individual sense of self esteem, Its easy to get lost in music and think you're someone you're not. You need a grounding pole that takes you back to the beginning where you can start the whole process over and over again from scratch. Every time you do you become stronger at what you do. I cant stress how important this becomes.

 

I had a couple of good teachers who went beyond the notes and basics and taught me some essential lifestyle basics that helped me get past what seemed like insurmountable obstacles during my years as a musician. They are important more in music then many other trades because music involves putting emotions into sound and you quickly learn, not all emotions are good, especially when dealing with other people in a small band.

 

As a child you can afford to play the fantasy out as a singer or musician. Friends and family will applaud your efforts. As you get older, work professionally, you don't have that support network there and its so easy to become interdependent on others who may knowingly or unknowingly co-opt your talent to make themselves look good. You may not even realize it but you stop being yourself and become a ghost of the person you once were. Music can easily become an escape from reality and efforts to improve yourself as a musician can lead to adopting bad habits and dead end short cuts.

 

I've lost allot of friends who wound up in that trap. The way to stay out of it is to always remember you can never be the person whose music you're copying. You can match them being yourself, developing your own talents and creating a desire in others to sing as well as you do, but you have to put the time, education and effort into it to being better then the other guy is first, then maintaining what you gain. It takes allot of blind faith to be a skilled singer and having the right attitude does more to get you there then most people can imagine.

 

Vocals especially has a very small window where you can become professions. Those who are the best usually begin as children before puberty and become professional by the time their voices begin to change. Most have about 20 years to either make it or break it. 10% achieve some limited professional experience and usually drop out of the profession because of domestic or financial pressures, never to come back. Half of those wind up being rebounders, older musicians trying to catch up for the years they lost trying to revisit their younger years and become weekend warriors, not as driven to make music a full time profession. Less then one percent of the total ever get farther then that and actually have sustainable professional success.

 

Of course I'm meandering here. I have no idea of your age, skill level, aptitude etc. Many people just want to go out on a Friday night and have fun singing Karaoke with their friends. Back when I first started in the 60's I was on stage playing in a full orchestra and doing talent shows in school. They were big audiences too. You never forget the butterflies you get with your first solo gig in front of a packed house. Man I was never so scared in my life. I was worried about screwing up on one difficult chord to that song. I did of course. Doubt many noticed it, but I did. You can fool others but you cant fool yourself. That put a desire in me to never have that happen again. I learned I had to have my s****t wrapped tight and practiced to the hilt if I wanted to avoid that embarrassment.

 

Its those kinds of things that drive musicians to be as good as they can be. It works well too if you're willing to experience it.

[brendenpannell]

Im going to expand upon an answer that was already given: BREATHING.

 

Learning how to use your diaphragm is INTEGRAL to being a great singer. If you are feeling lightheaded or dizzy when you are pushing it, that means that your body is running out of air and you need to learn how to properly use he air you intake. One way to do this is have someone sit in front of you, and place their hands firmly on your stomach. Next, lean forward as they push to the point that if they were to remove their hands, you would fall flat on your face. Sing the song. You will need to intake more air than usual, but his is a great way to increase your breathing-stamina. It also helps with power. Another exercise is to tighten your abs, and sing the song the whole way through. When you inhale, do not release your abs. Again, this helps stamina and power, but it also helps with regulating airflow. Get this down first before you move on to tone. Tone can always be "fixed" but you HAVE to know how to breathe before we get there.

[Uh_Me]

Thank you guys for the advice. After trying it again, I realized what I was doing. I sang along with the song while recording. On play back, I realized Ive been doing a bit of an impression on this song without realizing it. I've been putting a more weight into it than my voice naturaly has. And the further up I went, the harder to bring up that weight with me. Guess I should have recorded myself to start with lol. Sorry

[highmtn]

@Uh_Me,

 

Your problem could have to do with the vowels in the line that you are singing the C5 on. If you can sing a C5 on other songs, then what is the difference? The lyrics, the volume level, the tone, etc... The last couple of times in that song he's just singing the whole line on C5, so take a look at the consonants and vowels involved. Some vowels are easier to sing than others, up top.

 

L-ahk ah baa-tah dah-ell

 

Be careful with the "h" of "hell" H is a tough consonant to put in the middle of a line, especially up high. It's literally just a rush of air. You can't sing an "h". So just let the end of the syllable before "be" the "h" for "hell". Don't waste air on the "h". OR the "f' of "of". If you listen, Meatloaf isn't pronouncing the F of "OF" as in "bat out "of" hell" it's more "like a bat outta ell"

 

When you use hard consonants, your vocal tract closes down a little bit. A more continuous air flow, with lightened consonants allows for a more consistent sound with less air being used. Good support for your breath is also a must at a C5; pushing down on the diaphragm is a great shock absorber for singing lines like this at notes like that.

 

This may not be your issue on this song, but it's something you may want to consider.

 

All the Best!

 

Bob

[Uh_Me]

Well. I've practiced the song quite a bit and am just gonna put it down for awhile. I either don't yet have the technical skills to do it justice or just don't have the voice to pull it off lol. I made a makeshift karaoke version of it by lowering the volume of the vocals on the original and plopped my vocal track on top of it, and this is what I came up with. Since you guys were nice enough to try and help, the least I could do is put the end result up. Lol.

 

https://thequestionablenotes.bandcamp.com

[WRGKMC]

The speaker on my work computer isn't good enough to hear details very well so I really cant give you any coaching till I can hear it in more detail.

If I get a chance I'll play it on my studio monitors this weekend and I should be able to make out what you might need.

 

You do have to realize commercial recordings and especially vocals on recordings have a good deal of compression and EQ.

Compression was invented to make volume riding automated. Loud notes get softer and soft notes get louder when set properly. This even up the dynamics so hard notes don't blow the cones of your speaker out and soft notes can be heard clearly. It can go a long ways towards making a vocal part sound polished.

 

. EQ can help match the frequency response quite a bit too. Chances are the singer is using one of the best mics made and has its own coloration. Further equalization is used in the studio to give the singer the best response for the mix. EQing your mic wont give it a perfect match but it can get it allot closer.

 

Reverb or echo and reverb will give vocals anything from a room to an in concert sound and add three dimensionality. Many singers become reliant on reflection to get their best vocals sounds. Singing through a PA in a big hall is the best of course by any number of hardware reverb units and digital plugins can be used to create a similar effect. You'd be surprised how much the trails of the vocals can help guide you when singing because you hear them in between the notes you're actually singing and can gauge your singing nearly instantly once you get used to it.

 

I often run a reverb or echo in the singers headphones when recording so they can get the longer vocal trails happening. I'll record them dry however and add finely tuned effects later when I'm mixing to get optimal results.

 

If you don't have one you may want to find yourself something like a Lexicon or Alexis Midiverb which you can stick between your mic and recorder then dial up some reverb/echo effects when singing. You can find them being sold used on EBay for less then $50 all the time. (just be sure it comes with the power supply and is functional) They make a small rack version which you can find for around $40 used.

 

You'll find it a whole lot easier hitting notes when you have that reflection happening. It provides a toned resonance to your vocals which helps you achieve the proper pitch easier and you'll also have some separation from the original singer which will make it easier to sing along to tracks like you're doing.