Members Bro' FF Posted November 29, 2003 Members Share Posted November 29, 2003 Hi, I tried this in the recording forum with little input some time ago, so forgive the crosspost... I bought a vintage Yamaha PM-1000 16-track mixing console a month or so back. Fortunately, everything seems to be in working order. I bought it as part of a home recording project I am piecing together. I have a few questions, if anyone is familiar with the PM series: How are the preamps in comparison to other "old" analog consoles? There is a phantom power switch but it supplies all mic inputs... will this hurt my dynamic mics, or effect their operation? I have a couple of condensors that require the power. What do the Echo 1 and 2 controls and sends do? There are only four channel outs, those being the main busses. There are multiple examples of the four, but only four. NO direct channel strip outs. Is this going to be an issue in the future for quality recording, or should I change directions now? Each channel strip can be routed to any or all of the four master strips. Each master strip has a seperate volume control for each of the four assigned busses. So, each master is simply a carbon copy of the others, but can be set up differently. This seems odd to me, but is this standard layout? I would have thought the channel masters would be more independant of one another. Obviously you can just choose to send (for example, 8 drum mics) a given "instrument" signal to only one of the four busses for export and level control. It is a cool unit, and I know it was very expensive and high-end in its' day. I like the look and feel of old gear, all things being equal, and would like to make this work but want your feed back to make sure I am not barking up the wrong tree. For clarity, I intend to maintain an all-analog signal path from the source, and will record in digital for practicality and economy. I figure I could always master to a 1/2" 2-track tape and then back to digital if it is not warm enough, but I presume it will be. Anyhow, you guys here don't seem to mind helping out so thanks in advance! ~Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassknave Posted November 29, 2003 Members Share Posted November 29, 2003 Originally posted by Bro' FF Hi, I tried this in the recording forum with little input some time ago, so forgive the crosspost... I bought a vintage Yamaha PM-1000 16-track mixing console a month or so back. Fortunately, everything seems to be in working order. I bought it as part of a home recording project I am piecing together. I have a few questions, if anyone is familiar with the PM series: How are the preamps in comparison to other "old" analog consoles? Probably no better-no worse. Don't remember if these are monolithic or discrete. They won't be particularly quiet. There is a phantom power switch but it supplies all mic inputs... will this hurt my dynamic mics, or effect their operation? I have a couple of condensors that require the power. Global phantom won't hurt your dynamic mics--it's common on lower-end boards such as Mackie or Behringer. What do the Echo 1 and 2 controls and sends do? Most likely, these are post-fader auxes, though it was not uncommon back in the day to run a plate or chamber echo on a "pre" send. In the stone age, you'd bring the signal back on aux returns. Today. it is more common to return them on channel strip line inputs. That way you have equalized returns. There are only four channel outs, those being the main busses. There are multiple examples of the four, but only four. NO direct channel strip outs. Is this going to be an issue in the future for quality recording, or should I change directions now? The unit was designed to drive a 4-track recorder. You can drive an 8 if you double-bus...that it, if you put Y cables on the group outputs. You won't be able to lay more than four tracks at a time. Each channel strip can be routed to any or all of the four master strips. Each master strip has a seperate volume control for each of the four assigned busses. So, each master is simply a carbon copy of the others, but can be set up differently. This seems odd to me, but is this standard layout? I would have thought the channel masters would be more independant of one another. Obviously you can just choose to send (for example, 8 drum mics) a given "instrument" signal to only one of the four busses for export and level control. The rotary volumes on the groups may be part of the monitor system. Quantum mixers from the same era had independent monitoring like that. It is a cool unit, and I know it was very expensive and high-end in its' day. I like the look and feel of old gear, all things being equal, and would like to make this work but want your feed back to make sure I am not barking up the wrong tree. For clarity, I intend to maintain an all-analog signal path from the source, and will record in digital for practicality and economy. I figure I could always master to a 1/2" 2-track tape and then back to digital if it is not warm enough, but I presume it will be. You might well find that the unit is too noisy for digital work. You're probably going to experience some real headaches sorting out noise and RF sources. I remember when we were getting Soundesign and Record Plant digital-ready in LA ('79). We found all kinds of of thermal noise buried below the asperity noise of analog tape. Bear in mind that with analog audio, you're working with a S/N ratio on the order of 40-50dB. With digital, you're working in the area of 100dB. that's 100,000-times lower than the typical analog S/N. In addition, you're way down on features(EQ and auxes) compared to a modern desk. Anyhow, you guys here don't seem to mind helping out so thanks in advance! ~Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bro' FF Posted November 29, 2003 Author Members Share Posted November 29, 2003 Wow, thank you so much for the detailed reply and overview. I suppose in reality, four tracks at a time is not that unreasonable considering I could mix all the the drum tracks and direct them to one bus, same with guitar, bass, and vocals. In our band, we only use one guitar but could overdub for addional fills, keys, etc. I bought the desk to get a nice warm analog tone; hopefully it will be relatively quiet and work for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bro' FF Posted November 29, 2003 Author Members Share Posted November 29, 2003 Originally posted by Audiopile concerning this: What do the Echo 1 and 2 controls and sends do? As I remember correctly, there were only the two aux sends labeled "Echo". I believe one was pre and one was post fader. It seems like there are jumpers inside you can change a pre-post assignment of the aux sends. The 16 blue knob grouping in the upper right is a matrix out, handy for live or recording. I believe '74 or '75 was the first year production for the PM-1000. In my opinion, everything about the board is pretty phat, including the preamps. I'm pretty sure it's loaded with all transformer in's and outs. As I remember, the rotery orange knobs at the bottom of the blue knob matrix is actually your main output volume. It's starting to come back to me... yes... Typically I'd use the four sub groups as normal, then pick... oh... the first two matrix outs as Main L & R... run all the blue knobs where they needed to be for any stereo imaging... boy, it's been a long time. I remember the sub assign buttons at the top of each strip were pretty trick... that mechanical two color system.... and it seems like the slider pots were actually sealed rotary pots with a mechanical gizmo that converted the slider action into rotary action. ... you missed out though. I finally parted with my Genuine Anvil PM-1000-16 flightcase just a couple months ago. Thanks Mark! I actually got a genuine Anvil flight case with it! You are correct, there are two auxilliary Echo sends; and each channels strip has a level control for Echo 1 and 2 as well. How does that "matrix" work, if you have a moment? ~Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 30, 2003 Members Share Posted November 30, 2003 I also believe the console was manufactured about 1973-74 or so at the earliest. An old friend of mine was on the design team for the PM series through the PM-3k. The odd thing about that console was the rotary to linear fader linkage and mechanism. I believe they used an AB rotary pot over only about 60 degrees of rotation to achieve the fader function. A photo of this would be good for others to see since it's so unusual. It's not a particulary good sounbding console, the eq is very basic, the mic preamps are so-so. It's all very early IC (741/747's, 1458's etc. and hybrid design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 30, 2003 Members Share Posted November 30, 2003 Yes, the PM-1000 was earth shattering for it's time. You could get a transformer balanced input (and output option), it was very reliable, heavy, and it sounded way better than anything else except possibly the Soundcraft 1S. This was a time of high flying hard core development engineering... there were limited standards with respect to any application. Even stage monitors were relatively new, and there were no dedicated monitor consoles, generally only 1 mix from the FOH console. I imaging that the release dates of this early gear was somewhat "sketchy" in general, since there were not many buyers of true production pieces in the early years. They were so expensive that they were sometimes loaned out to show that there was a need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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