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Question about adding subs to a pair of PRX618s-XLF and other upgrade options.

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  • Question about adding subs to a pair of PRX618s-XLF and other upgrade options.

    Hello, I have been using the PRX618s-XLF under PRX612m combo for a while now and really been enjoying it. Recently I have been doing more events outside (church events in parking lots, restaurant patios, etc.), and was thinking I would like to add two additional subs to my stable bringing my total up to four. I have been keeping an eye out for used 618-XLFs for a while now and none have popped up, so I was wondering if anyone has added a pair of the new PRX718-XLF to a pair of 618-XLF and what the results were?

    The other option that I have been investigating is selling the two 618-XLFs I have and just buying four new 718-XLFs. I am assuming the 612 series I currently own would still work well with the 718 series? Seems like they should.

    Of course, after I think some more (always dangerous), I start to wonder if I shouldn't sell the two 618-XLFs I have, buy four of the PRX718-XLFs, turn the two 612Ms I currently use for FOH into additional monitors (giving me a total of 6), and buy something crazy like a pair of PRX735s to use over my four new subs.

    I bought the original PRX6xx system after receiving advice on this forum, so I value what you guys have to say. It has certainly served me well and has done everything I have needed at the inside events we have played or done sound for.


    To answer the usual questions you guys have:

    -The cost of the above options is not as important to me as the ability to grow in the outside events I am doing.

    -Events vary greatly from a 50 person church service, to a 400 person church worship event indoors, to 600+ person outdoor events at local parks (usually far fewer are actively listening to the band at these events, the 600+ head count includes people handing out food and playing volleyball as well and we don't need metal-concert volume). I have been running out of sub at these outdoor events, even when center clustering them. Surprisingly, the 612m tops have been plenty for these events, but I am not sure they will keep up as the events grow each month.

    -I am currently set up with a Mixwizard, too many mics to mention, an EWI 16x4 snake, and four RCF 312A monitors.

    -I have a trailer that can handle any of the upgrades mentioned above.


    Thanks!
    Good deals with: CRANK, Julius Caesar, nxheo, smd24fan, basshub, and Lonnie99

  • #2
    The 618 and 718XLF's use the same driver AFAIK. They both weigh 81lbs, but the 718's have a fan and boast a more bloated amp wattage rating despite the same SPL rating.

    I heard someone on another forum state that JBL said they would work just fine together. I agree.

    From here: http://www.sesystems.com/JBL-364537-...XLF-P4010.aspx

    Note, that this driver is also the same in the VRX918SP, so it is pretty good stuff!
    With Greater Knowledge Comes Greater Understanding

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the input, to add to the mix, I just found a used set of PRX618-XLFs with a pair of used PRX635 for sale locally. The guy won't split them up but the price for the package is nice. Four 618XLFs and two 635s might be a nice combo.

      Is the 635 an upgrade over the 612m? The peak SPL from JBL's website is 135 vs 134, I wouldn't really want to replace a 34 pound speaker with a 60 pound one that does the same thing.
      Good deals with: CRANK, Julius Caesar, nxheo, smd24fan, basshub, and Lonnie99

      Comment


      • #4
        Scratch the used 618/635 combo, he just texted me and said they sold last night. That was quick.
        Good deals with: CRANK, Julius Caesar, nxheo, smd24fan, basshub, and Lonnie99

        Comment


        • #5
          What you are seeing is the resale value and desireable nature of a product that is a well respected performer. Give it some time and more will eventually come up used. The 635 is a somewhat more open sounding speaker, but that comes at a size, weight and cost penalty. Less improvement than you might expect when used with subs too.

          Comment


          • #6
            Despite things I've read about the 635 overheating, it's still a winner in my mind. It's much lighter than the newer 735 and can be had for much less these days. FWIW - I think that the 635 is more a tool for a specific purpose than the 2-ways. I found a good deal on my 615s, but had I found a deal like you did on the 635s over 618XLFs I woulda been all over that since I run sound for a band with 4 vocalists and a horn section with "sax and violins". That dedicated mids speaker makes the xover points almost disappear and just works best for bands like mine.
            Where the Mississippi River runs west...

            Comment


            • #7
              I have a pair of 618 XLF's that are like new and have never been gigged with covers. The problem is I don't want to package and ship them. Local pickup only. I'm in the San Diego, CA area. Just sayin'.
              NSA - The only government agency that actually listens to what you have to say.

              Comment


              • vaughn4380
                vaughn4380 commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks for the offer, but I am in Ohio. Shipping would probably equal their value.

            • #8
              Originally posted by OneEng View Post
              The 618 and 718XLF's use the same driver AFAIK. They both weigh 81lbs, but the 718's have a fan and boast a more bloated amp wattage rating despite the same SPL rating.

              I heard someone on another forum state that JBL said they would work just fine together. I agree.

              From here: http://www.sesystems.com/JBL-364537-...XLF-P4010.aspx

              Note, that this driver is also the same in the VRX918SP, so it is pretty good stuff!
              Actually the 718XLF uses the 2278G, a different driver than the 618S-XLF and VRX918SP which use the 2268. Still, I would bet they play well together.
              Last edited by sibyrnes; 08-01-2014, 02:11 PM.

              Comment


              • #9
                Sorry I'm late to this post. I recently added a pair of 718's and 712's to my 618 xlf's and 612's. I would say yes, they all play well together. I haven't had much opportunity to get out in front, as I have been playing in the bands they've been used for, but here are my thoughts so far.

                - The cabs are different. the 718 and 618's are very close in size. The main difference is the grill pattern. Not super noticeable though. The front blue LED's are in different locations. This is probably the most noticeable if anyone is paying attention, but you can turn off the front led on the 718's. If I'm stacking, I stack the 618 on top of the 718 and it looks good. The 712's are larger, and heavier than the 612's, which are smaller and lighter. The monitor angle on the 712 is steeper, addressing the complains about 612. The monitor angles are on opposite sides if comparing the two straight on.

                - Sound wise, they are the same. I feel like the 700 series has a little more punch than the 600's, but that may be my eyes listening.

                - The main advantage to having the pairs now is flexibility. I have options and have used the speakers in several configurations so far. The 712's make great monitors, when needed. I've used them for coverage issues where the audience is spread wide from the stage. I've also stacked them all on either side of the stage. Stacking two of the 12's on top of the 18's works in a pinch. With the monitor angles on opposite sides, you can place the 712 on the left, and the 612 on the right and they fit together to give a splay (make sure you have straps!). Two 12's per side provide a noticeable volume increase. As for comb filtering, if you walk around you can hear a phasing or wooshing sound that I think we've all heard before, but nothing seems to drop out. If your audience is mostly in one place, they probably would not even notice. Finally, I've used them as delays (pair of 12's on either side of stage, and a pair on either side of FOH mixing position). I have an X32, so the delay processing is built in. I find this the best way to get even coverage. You don't have to blast anyone at any one position. I love how when setting the delays, the sound from the speaker just "disappears" when you find the sweet spot. Cable runs and positioning doesn't always allow for this type of setup though.

                Flexibility and piece of mind that there is a backup if something goes down alone were worth the cost of the additional speakers.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by vort View Post
                  Sorry I'm late to this post. I recently added a pair of 718's and 712's to my 618 xlf's and 612's. I would say yes, they all play well together. I haven't had much opportunity to get out in front, as I have been playing in the bands they've been used for, but here are my thoughts so far.

                  - The cabs are different. the 718 and 618's are very close in size. The main difference is the grill pattern. Not super noticeable though. The front blue LED's are in different locations. This is probably the most noticeable if anyone is paying attention, but you can turn off the front led on the 718's. If I'm stacking, I stack the 618 on top of the 718 and it looks good. The 712's are larger, and heavier than the 612's, which are smaller and lighter. The monitor angle on the 712 is steeper, addressing the complains about 612. The monitor angles are on opposite sides if comparing the two straight on.

                  - Sound wise, they are the same. I feel like the 700 series has a little more punch than the 600's, but that may be my eyes listening.

                  - The main advantage to having the pairs now is flexibility. I have options and have used the speakers in several configurations so far. The 712's make great monitors, when needed. I've used them for coverage issues where the audience is spread wide from the stage. I've also stacked them all on either side of the stage. Stacking two of the 12's on top of the 18's works in a pinch. With the monitor angles on opposite sides, you can place the 712 on the left, and the 612 on the right and they fit together to give a splay (make sure you have straps!). Two 12's per side provide a noticeable volume increase. As for comb filtering, if you walk around you can hear a phasing or wooshing sound that I think we've all heard before, but nothing seems to drop out. If your audience is mostly in one place, they probably would not even notice. Finally, I've used them as delays (pair of 12's on either side of stage, and a pair on either side of FOH mixing position). I have an X32, so the delay processing is built in. I find this the best way to get even coverage. You don't have to blast anyone at any one position. I love how when setting the delays, the sound from the speaker just "disappears" when you find the sweet spot. Cable runs and positioning doesn't always allow for this type of setup though.

                  Flexibility and piece of mind that there is a backup if something goes down alone were worth the cost of the additional speakers.
                  Thanks Vort,

                  I have heard another report that the 718's may be a bit more potent than the 618's. If you have some time, could you A/B them for us? I would love to hear from someone who has both. Thanks! I envy your rig too. Nice stuff.
                  With Greater Knowledge Comes Greater Understanding

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Yeah, thanks Vort. I think you are the first one that I know of who has actually used them together. I am definitely interested. I've been using four of the 618s for a while now and I can see myself adding some 718s in the future. By the way, four of the 618 XLF center clustered kick butt!

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      New update: Over the weekend I had an interested party offer to purchase my two 618-XLF at a price we were both happy with. I will say the JBL stuff holds value very well.

                      So now I am able to upgrade the entire sub complement. My first thought was four of the new 718XLFs. I already have two of the PRX612 that should work well with these. But I am also considering adding two of the new PRX712. That would allow me to use four tops (two 612 and two 712) and four subs for the outside venues that we have been moving up to, and we can leave half of the system in the trailer when we do the inside venues. Would any of the experts on this forum have some pointers on splaying a 612 and a 712 next to each other? Both horns are 90 degrees. Would it be better to put both 612s on one side of the stage and both 712s on the other (that might look weird).

                      The other option I am considering is purchasing two yorkville EF500P and two LS801P and selling off the PRX612 I have. I have heard the Yorkvilles put out more volume with fewer cabinets and that is appealing. But the weight of each is spooking me. I have plenty of help at venues, but I still have to move these around on my own at home when packing the trailer. Also, the 60 degree horn on the top cabs might not work for the indoor venues we do (where the PRX612 has been working wonderfully).

                      I appreciate the input everyone has given so far. Thanks!

                      Good deals with: CRANK, Julius Caesar, nxheo, smd24fan, basshub, and Lonnie99

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        The JBLs will go lower than the Yorkville and the weight difference is pretty big. The LS801P is rated at a higher dB level, but at what frequency? That is the trouble with specs. From what I have read, the LS801P will get louder but does not sound as good as the XLFs. And, as you stated, "the JBL stuff holds value very well".
                        Last edited by sibyrnes; 08-04-2014, 10:23 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          I'd be happy to do some testing. Other than my subjective listening test, I may be able to do some measurements. I have the behringer measurement mic and an X32. Is there any free software for PC that can be used to measure? What type of measurements?

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by vort View Post
                            I'd be happy to do some testing. Other than my subjective listening test, I may be able to do some measurements. I have the behringer measurement mic and an X32. Is there any free software for PC that can be used to measure? What type of measurements?

                            The free version of this: https://www.trueaudio.com/rta_abt1.htm

                            is pretty comprehensive. I would be pleased to hear what your ear told you though
                            With Greater Knowledge Comes Greater Understanding

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