on stage submixing question

my setup goes like this:

nord stage in mono

rhodes in mono

microkorg in mono

moog lp in mono

all running into a mackie 1202vlz pro

i want individual control over the monitor stage levels but dont want to affect the out front sound level.whats the best way to do this?

Thanks

D

Run in mono

Split outputs from each - one to your submixer, one to the main board

This may be overkill for you, but this is what the pros would do:

ok thanks for the advice so far.

other issues i have is that the little phatty and the rhodes only have mono outs and these are being routed to a boss delay and moog delay respectively.

so nord stage>mono out> mixer

rhodes>mono out>moog delay>mixer

little phatty>boss delay>mixer

microkorg>mono out>mixer

so if the above 4 go into the mono ins on channels 1-4 on the desk how do i get the signal to appear in my monitor where i can control the levels and still send the whole lot to the engineer without my level affecting the out front level?

its not possible to send the keyboards with only 1 out like the phatty and rhodes to 2 channels on the desk unfortunately. maybe the splitter box would work but im not sure how!oh yeah and those line/splitter boxes dont seem to be available here in the uk...

the only other option is to buy splitter cables that split the mono signal into 2-would these work?

any further ideas?

cheers for this

D

Dunno if it'd work perfectly but the first way possible that I can see would be four synths>inputs 1 to 4. Moog Delay on one aux send Boss on the other with aux two post fader aswell

Direct channel outputs into channels 5-8 or 5-12. Mute all those channels so they're sent to alt 3/4. Return the delays to aux returns and press the aux to monitor if that sends the aux returns to the monitor mix.

Press the alt 3/4 to ctrl room switch.

Theres got to be some catch but basically, you monitor yourself via the main outputs. You give the sound guy the ctrl room mix which should be unaffected by any fader movements and hopefully he should get the effects aswell.

Ah, there is a catch, when you move your faders the sound guys delay will drop. If the aux sends could be both pre fader then you might've been ok.

Just read your post again and you could be alright with regards to the fx if you go keyboard>delay>mixer. Basically just whack the direct outs back into the other channels and mute them, the sound guy gets the alt 3/4 mix.

That Mackie is not shy for the money you get alot of features with that thing. Every now and again I get GAS for the 1202-VLZ3 to replace my CR-1604 but the extra aux sends are always nice to have.

Let us know how you get on,

Pete.

Ah, I just realised that the direct outs are actually inserts. If the 1202 is like my CR1604 you can plug jacks in halfway for direct outs. I remember seeing some jacks somewhere that you could plug in all the way that wouldn't interupt the signal flow, might be worth checking out.

thanks very much Pete for your help,the inserts used as direct outs looks like the way to go. i could just take 4 patch leads from the direct outs into the spare channels as you outlined above, mute them so they go to the alt 3-4 out.send the control room out to front of house. would i need to run a powered monitor then separate to the main system so i have my own little pa?

will keep you posted!

if you get any more ideas feel free to send them my way! many thanks

ps im in Leeds UK

Dan G (JD73)

I run a S90ES, Hammond X1 module and the guitar players yamaha through a small Berhinger. What I do is use the MONITOR send to get my signal back to the main board, the sound man runs a return to me that I use as a monitor signal for the other instruments (I use in-ear monitors) so with the monitor send on that channel turned off it doesn't loop back to the front.

This way I can mix my sound with the faders, leaving the monitor/gain knobs unchanged for the front once they are set, I love the setup as it gives me freedom to mix what I need to hear for different songs. It also allows me to run all the keys through one channel....which helps in a seven piece band using EVERY channel up!

I guess you could just set up the front of house mix on aux send 1. Turn it to pre-fader and balance the levels with the aux send knobs. Plus you can adjust the overall mix level with the aux master knob.

On my CR-1604 the pre-fader aux send 1 output is actually labelled monitor so I guess it's pretty much designed for this purpose.

You could also switch this around so you had the aux mix and the sound guy had the main out on XLRs

How's the jazz funk scene up in Leeds? I was up there a couple of months ago to see a mate but we went out to a dance night, Eyes wide shut I think it was called.

I like sending the aux/monitor to the house because it's much easier to adjust faders on the fly than little knobs. Not that there's anything wrong with that.....

I'd DI each synth individually so they all come up on the desk and your engineer can mix them however they want, and just plug the through of each DI into your desk and mix like that. That's the most flexible and best sounding way to do it, but it uses more channels at FOH. Guess it depends on how many channels you've got to play with.

ok but doesnt that mean though that if i change my volumes on the desk it will change out front as well?

No, because the send to FOH from the DI is before your submix on stage.

There's a very simple answer to your question - just use Aux Send 1 to create a monitor mix. Send your main outputs to the house but send the Aux Send 1 output to your monitor. Use the Aux Send 1 knobs on each channel to control the level you're hearing for that instrument. The house mix will be completely unaffected by this.

If you look at the hookup diagrams Mackie provides in the manual, you'll see that this is exactly what they recommend.