Any of you ever get frustrated writing vocals?

I'm not 'new' exactly to writing vocal lines, but i've never really tried till the past few months or so.. and i'm finding my main problem is i keep writing un-catchy un-interesting vocal lines that are almost like me talking... and eveyrtime i write a new one its the same as the last one..

I know i have a limited range with my voice too, its lower and i cant hit any high notes i want too cuz i just cant go that high, no to mention my throat feel strained every time..

Did or does anyone else go through similar experiences? like you just cant write anything good vocally and get frustrated and just want to give up completely on music?

If im emotionally Inspired by something (love, hate, depresion, etc etc) then its REALLY easy for me.

But if I just sit down with no inspiration and no music to write too... Then its nearly impossible for me.

BTW, Kirkland ehhh? Your right down I-405 from me

Maybe thats a problem too.. I really have a hard time channeling emotion.. like if i'm angry or upset i dont feel too much like writing a song.. i end up writing fake retarded poppy songs...

I'm actually in factoria now, but i work in lynnwood

Fake retarted poppy songs usually sell lots of records...

shhhhhhh..... don't tell anyone

yea but i forgot to mention BAD in there too.. I wana write a song that has emotion. when i heard a hard rocksong that i can actually feel something.. I cant feel anything with my songs.. anyways to poke a whole in my soul and leak the emotion out into my songs??

yea but i forgot to mention BAD in there too.. I wana write a song that has emotion. when i heard a hard rocksong that i can actually feel something.. I cant feel anything with my songs.. anyways to poke a whole in my soul and leak the emotion out into my songs??

I find writing non-crap lyrics more difficult than writing good melodies. The best vocal melodies to me, can stand up on their own as a line tapped out on a piano with one finger.

Writing the rhythmic poetry to fit that line is a lot more difficult. I like to memorize the rhythmic "corners" of a melody line I've finished and like. Essentially, just singing it "da da da", removing the pitch changes. Then I start writing the lyric as a poetic "rap" that fits those corners.

Rewrites/editing are key.

for me i feel the lyrics aren't quite as important as the expression and feeling you put into how your saying it.. you could have the most important thing to say in the world but if you say it in a flat monotone non emotional voice, who will find that very exciting... maybe onc ethey see the meaning past the presentation, but songs are kind of about presentation as the first thing you hear is the actual sound itself and not the meaning per-say.

Well, writing a good melody and lyric are one thing. Interpreting it vocally is another thing entirely...

well, since you commented how your limited range affects your vocals, definetely try playing them on a guitar or piano or something. If you want to see how the lyrics fall into place, speak them rhythmically while you play the melody. That ought to be enough to give a clear picture of what the melody would sound like vocally.

Don't worry about having a limited range, just try to push the limits as much as you can, when singing along to songs or something, sing up an octave or a harmony. Practice the high stuff and eventually you'll get good enough to hit them without a strain. I used to have the same problem you do, but after practicing for a long time I have almost the entire range of the guitar vocally, little below and not quite all the high stuff, sounds bad up there anyways =D

Originally posted by Electricview Maybe thats a problem too.. I really have a hard time channeling emotion.. like if i'm angry or upset i dont feel too much like writing a song.. i end up writing fake retarded poppy songs... I'm actually in factoria now, but i work in lynnwood

FACTORIA? ahahaha!LOL

Hey hey is they any factories in fac-tor-ria?

hmmm. seems like a line in a song I hoid once.

In ordre to channel emotion GRASHOPPAH one must hit a RED brick with your clenched fist as hard as you can.

Oh no, wait! thats anothre type of channelink.

Oh wait you're the VOCAL LINES GUY huh?

I ain't never written a "vocal" ever. ahaha! I have ARRANGED vocals . I have on the same hond mon' written lyrics.

Roses are red flowers they stank

I put lots of pennies in my piggy *(money holder thing)

if I die before i wake

I'm gonna haunt you

and give you a *(wiggle)!

BOO!

My girlfiend has a stanky old thang

won't let me touch it till I give her a rang

so I called up her sistah

and give her a little kiss

we did it three time

then I had to take a *(bathroom break)

Okay grasshoppah...

Fix dem lyrics..

feel de rythym of the words

Discover the ebb and flow from these very simple and structured lyrics.

Now fix the lyrics so they flow even more.

Think wid yore branes and do not look in a book or ask your daddy or any thing othre than feelink the ebb and flow of the lyrics.

say the words out loud and feel the ebb and flow.

Now when a guy or gal SANGS the lyrics the lyrics then become vocals, but on paper, theys lyrics.

now fix this set of lyrics. (if able you are?)

on a dark desert island

cool wind in my hair

warm smale of colitas

rising up through the *(ground)

now try to figger out what a HAIKU is.. then study them thangs(HAIKU) and larn to create a HAIKU on your own.

I just wrote this one. took me five minutes to thank it up useing structured RULES and TECHNIQUES of HAIKU writink that I larned by studyin haikus in ordre to say a LOT with a little. which helps a cat(miow) like me be a better song writter. . .

warm mornings

dew

sparkles loud

so in ordre to get goode song writing skills

you must learn writing skills and tricks and techniques. Like ALLITERATION.

My Brothre Bob Bopped me on my Bare Bean

My sister sue sucks at skating

theys bunches of song styles and therefore bunches of writing styles and so you MUST lean some writink skills.

begin with the ROSES ARE RED type of rhyme. I know theys cheesy but they're important to study. '

Study and write and study and write.

that is all

ovre and out

and i'll see you on the Radio. No, Really! ahahaha!

It's re-assuring to hear things like this.. And i hope your right, but i honestly feel like my range sucks badly, espically cuz when i play guitar i end up making all my choruses on a B or D chord or somewhere in between and i cannot sing anything high enought to match that.. When i try to get close my throat feels soo sore like i've been pulling it tightly and painfully...

So you think i should almost like write a melody with a single string of the guitar and then try to sing that later? or maybe just see which notes i can match on the guitar with my voice to find my limit?

and for the other post below yours.. i'm not sure i understand really what was said there..

It sounds like to me that you need to find your voice.....if you can find a soft rock tune that you like ,,, pick an older one if you can and work that song up. I say soft rock because its pretty well impossable to scream it or talk it....you have the original track so you have goal to shoot for ,,,,

IF you have a way to record it cut the back track and just focus in on cutting and re cutting the lead vocal. Really belt it out and experiment.

One thing you have to remember is that if you can tune a guitar , you are not tone deaf. You only are at a point where you havent figured out the secret to bringing your voice up from the gut and controlling it.

I find that the more willing i am to really go for it when i sing a song, the better it sounds....All you have to do is cut that first track that sounds good and you are off to the races ... you can pretty well sing most songs. You no doubt have a much bigger range than you think you do ,, you just havent figure out how to really turn it loose vocally .... rat

Thanks rat.. I hope your right.. i just times feel like i really really have a limited range, like i try to go high and i just crack and and cant and it dies..

another problem i have.. It feels like i'm 'shout' singing if that makes any sense.. you know? just increasing volume to hit and hold notes... and it sounds not so much like forcefull singing as much as it does i'm just shouting vocal lines.. Maybe its just me trying to compensate for distorted guitar becuase i really want to write distorted guitar, but i may not have a voice that can work with heavy distorted guitar?

(not heavy metal or screaming, just think foo fighters type of guitar).

YOU SAID and for the other post below yours.. i'm not sure i understand really what was said there

YEAH I get that a lot.. ahahah! Lots of folkes will never "get it" yet i'll try this for the GIFT.

Music is a GIFT and some FOLKES DON'T HAVE THE GIFT.

Lets see if you do?

your range DOES SUCK cause you don't know what your range is...

Finde your range

HOW do I do I finde my range?

okay glad you asked ahahah!

begin with MIDDLE C. Finde middle C on Pianner or the FIRST POSITION C CHORD ROOT NOTE. (CMAJOR)

SOUND a vocal expression with your MOUTH round like an OH and your jaw open. ohhhhhhhhh in the C note till you run out of breath then KEEP ohhhhhing or sangin the note from your DIAPHRAGM till your voice CROAKS like A FROG. then REPEAT a few times to "loosen" up. If this note is too high, GO DOWN TWO WHOLE STEPS to....----- A.. and try again till you finde a COMFORTABLE note for you. You could be a DEEP TIMBER'D SANGER and be all bassy so don't sweat it iffen you can't get high up like a GIRL.. ahahaha!

keep doing it till you get loosened up .

Then go up a half step and REPEAT.

Keep going up a half step till your feel your voice beginning to strain. NEVER STRAIN your voice on porpise.

STOP now go down two whole steps from what ever key you were in and begin again. Stopping when you feel vocal strain.

After a bit when you can go no further up in scale, guess what? you done found your range..

Each persons range is different.

as you age your range will change. Go with it.

I tune down a whole step so I can hit the high notes of my range. I use big thick-aced strangs so the strangs do not FLOP and buzz. , MEDIUMS.

I typed reallly slowwwlyyyyy..

ahahaha!

This is good advice. It will also improve your guitar/piano playing to focus on melodic playing. Just don't slip into wankery--you'll never sing that. I don't know if I've got it down yet, but I really struggled with writing vocal melodies when I started.

Okay are you southern? Okay but i get your advice.. i'm not sure i'm good enough at tone recognition to controll half a step with just my voice, but i assume its okay to strike the note on the guitar first and try to match it?

sometimes it feels no matter what i sing i'm kind of straining my voice.. similarly related, sometimes when i'm hanging out with friends and i talk for a while (I either project my voice or i'm just loud) I start to feel this straining on my voice.. sometimes it makes me a little horse.. i dont shout or anything, but sometimes i wonder if maybe i just have a weak voice/throat and my throat just strains easily?

How do i know i'm starting to get strain? (i allways feel a little bit of tiredness no matter what i'm singing, so maybe i'm doing it all wrong?) and i shouldn't force the note so even if i'm quite i just keep pushing? I can falsetto any note, but i dont like falsing stuff.. i want a natural pushed singing voice.. I'm afriad i might end up with a small range, forced to only sing pop-punk-rock or some sort..

I may not have any gift.. but i'm tring to do best with what i have..

------------

On a side note.. I wallsy thought my voice just couldn't fit with the music i write.. maybe.. it's just the opposite way around, its a scarey thought, but maybe i need to sing first.. I am always tuned down half a step so as to match notes better.. Dont know about going down a full step, but half a step is a good start for me..

I think if you are not a cover player this is not true.

I know that there is some conventional agreement about commiting to a "normal" or "standard" concordance between musical style and vocal delivery, but it appears to me that most of the well known artists have done something different, even some of them sound detuned if musical standards are kept upright.

instead of trying to force their voice to something that strains them they have done theri own music that goes well with their voice.its the natural route.leonar cohen does not have a universally acceptable vocal delivery,nor does bob dylan.both of them sometimes sound "detuned".

I am not sure whether ? have employed the right words but what ? am trying to? say is musical beaty of the vocal

is not ingrained in its naked form.?ts part of the total and if the vocal delivary is in harmony( ? dont mean here in musical terms) with the rest it becomes unique whish is for me the best that can be atchieved musiaclly.

Hitting the note on your AXE(guitar) or PIANO(soft) is um "key". ahahha! oh I kill myself.. ahem..

I mean one MUST hit and hold the STRUCK NOTE and match your VOCAL RESONANCE to the note. That means you got to listen to the vibrations of the struck note and the vibrations of your own voice and when the two sets of vibrations MATCH you'll be in pefect pitch and you'll notice the wavy vibration has been replaced by a double hum.

Play with the vibrato in your voice at this point.

Feel the pitch variations in your voice.

Vocally Go up and down past the held STRUCK NOTE and feel how the vibrations speed up and slow down and finally stop when you have achieved PERFECT PITCH.

Sing SOFTER and drank lots of clear liquids while practicing. if you smoke, STOP.

Work your way up to a stronger and louder vocal ranger slowly.

After a while you should feel the vibrato strengthen in your new vocal range.

Remember to blow out HALF to THREE QUARTERS of the air in your lungs before beginning the arellspencer vocal training technique that I stole from my highschool music teacher.

it makes everything go faster..

When i'm getting ready for a job playin out I do the vocal excercises in the back seat of the VAN on the way to the job matching my vocal inflections to the pitch of the moving vehicle and the dudes look around to see where the noise is coming from ahahaha! so I stop and close my mouth real quickly when they look and I don't say anything, i just look all poker faced ahahah and they have odd looks on their faces. like they ain't quite sure iffen they heard something or not.. when they turn around I start up again and by the time i get to the stinky-dive I'm all ready.

If you're writing primarily for your own voice, and you find yourself straining to hit notes and your voice is cracking, you probably aren't singing properly. From what you are describing, it sounds like you are singing from your throat instead of your chest. I used to do the same thing. It can actually be pretty painful to sing that way. And if singing is painful, you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, if you are unable to figure it out on your own, it may help you to get some vocal lessons; a vocal instructor can help you to learn the proper technique, so your voice won't be straining all the time. Once you figure it out, you may discover parts of your range you didn't even know you had. That's what happened to me.

Try singing along to a bunch of your favorite CDs. That can be a useful exercise too. Not to mention fun.

10000 +,,,, I couldnt have said it better myself,, i know, i tried a few posts up. rat

Sounds like your trying to sing in the same range as something you like to listen to. Don't. I bet there is a ton of stuff in your range to sing. I agree about practicing and trying to stretch your chords just don't write songs to "push" yourself. That will only discourage you and scare away listeners. No one likes to listen to ppl strain for notes constantly. Every listen to Tenacious D? Jack Black sings great and is in a nice baritone range. Try something along those lines.

Sit down with a piano or your guitar. Start with a middle ground and start singing higher and higher until you feel yourself start to strain and then STOP. Then do the same thing going down. That will be your range. Try and write vocal melodies that verses are in the middle of your range, and the choruses (or whatever you want to accent) towards the top of your range. (not AT the top of your range, TOWARDS).

Trust me, good songs don't have to be belted out way up high.