OneEng

Haven't posted in years here, but it is good to see some familiar faces still on the boards :).

I haven't gigged in 4 years, but am trying to get a duo setup going.  Looking to put an L R Bagg Anthem acoustic pickup in my Taylor (Gives me ebee jeebees to think about taking a drill to a $2800 instrument) and get a new Flow 8 for handling the gigs (will still keep my little ZED 10fx since it is such a great little analog mixer).

Lots of people I contact on Bandmix want me to either start a full band, or join theirs.  I think that the pandemic has left lots of musicians without a band to gig with.

Hopefully I can be gigging out by Summer (I now live in NC so "Summer" starts around Mar/April unlike Michigan where it wasn't unheard of to get snow in May).

I still have a full pa (X32 Rack, DSR112's, PRX618XLF's), but I am not going to try to do the full band thing for a bit I think.

Anyway, that's my quick catchup.

No ratlines because the netlist on the schematic capture itself was wrong. A connection that I thought was made on schematic capture was not in fact made. You can be sure I am double-checking this now!

Ahh. That I have done. If you setup your schematic parts with properties that require them to be connected, you at least get a list of errors/warnings that some things aren't connected ..... that forces you to make sure you did all of them on purpose That is how I fixed this issue within our organization anyway.

Whatcha usin for schematic capture Andy?

Yes,I like that too.

 

I am working on bringing a new DSP solution to life, mixed surface mount and through hole, and I can't emphasize how important it is to follow all the rules regarding any application implementation. When you follow the rules, you eliminate many if not most of the possibilities for failure points, making troubleshooting and debugging much more efficient. In my case, I missed one connection on schematic capture that transferred to the PCB. I knew it had to be something simple, all the complicated stuff strictly followed the rules so it had to be a mistake rather than a misapplication.

Didn't you get one of those little lines on the layout showing a non-routed trace?

Not that I am a layout expert by any means. Schematic capture .... sure, layout ..... thank God there are people who actually like doing that job and do it well

FWIW, there are new adhesives and posted connectors we have been using in the place of through hole connectors. I am not a huge fan of the idea, but I allowed a few hundred boards to be built with them. I am watching them to see if there is an increase in warranty using them instead of through hole parts.

To the OP, it sounds like you have done everything you can do to help remedy the situation. Good luck. As I understand it, the systems that have this issue have a truly awful noise in them.

While understanding the problem is difficult, the cure is quite simple ..... replace the cables with the right ones .... and don't go through any switches, routers, repeaters, etc..... just connect point to point and be done with it.

If it isn't your system, you are just stuck with it I guess. That really sucks.

There shouldn't be any need for a distribution box. If you eliminate that you might have better success. I suspect that the cabling they used is UTP vs STP. If they did use STP, I would suspect they didn't use Ethercon connectors and ground the shield to the connectors.

Is there anyone you could forward the link to that long thread outlining this issue and its solution? Unless they want all the acts in their venue to sound like crap, they should have some interest in fixing the problem...... the installer would be the best IMO since they should be able to convince him it is his fault with a letter from Behringer (which they would be happy to provide).

Here you are. 34 page discussion about cable to use with the X32/S16:

 

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,143428.0.html

 

Bottom line is it needs to be shielded (STP), with Ethercon connectors at both ends and the shield must have continuity with the ethercons, as Andy mentioned. Aside from that the maximum official specified length for solid wire cat5e in this application is 100m, and 30m for stranded, although to my knowledge some stranded shielded cable (Proplex) is being successfully used at lengths up to 300'.

Thanks for the heads up on the different specifications for stranded vs solid wire! I didn't know that. Stranded is so much easier to keep from getting tangled up.

 

I don't think it's in a network. I think the entire AV system is over AES50 so it's just connecting that way...but maybe that's what you mean?...either way, it's definitely in there the way it is and it would take Behringer talking directly to the hotel and AV company after repeated failures for them to think about tearing it all out..BELIEVE ME!

I am relatively certain it is the cables, not the equipment. The link that I and Mike linked you to is a comprehensive explanation of exactly what causes your issues and how to solve them (use the cabling that was suggested).

There is no design flaw in the system (other than it wasn't designed with enough margin to handle UTP). There are literally tens of thousands of people using the X32 system with multiple digital snakes attached successfully.

At this point, you can either take the advice of those given here, contact Care at Behringer (which will tell you the same thing btw), or replace the system with something else.

I would replace the cables myself, but YMMV.

FYI,

STP - shielded twisted pairs. UTP - unshielded twisted pairs.

 

Between Stage Boxes is about 15 feet. Connection from the stage to the board is I don't know. It first goes into a plug on stage, then it goes to some kind of distribution system in a room next to the stage and from there to the board. The Hotel had an AV company install the whole thing and the PA is used for the house sound, DJ's and band. The Board is run through their whole convoluted system through a bunch of BSS software, an ethernet routing system etc...Whereas I would have split the band PA off but alas......

 

I don't know what STP or UTP are...Sorry. If it were me I would have used the AES50 cable that Behringer calls for. The AV install guy says they are using CAT5 cable....

 

I don't know what kind of connectors they are. The look like CAT5 and I don't know what terminated to the drain means

 

All I know is this entire system has been FUBAR sounds like ****************, is the wrong speakers and we've had problems with the stage snakes. NOT fun and as soon as I can replace the income i'm OUT.

Contact "Care" in Music Group (parent company of Behringer). They will take care of you.

I'm not familiar with Lab Lounge...Where is it?

I was vague. Prosoundweb lab lounge. Here: http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,143428.0.html

Look over on Lab Lounge. I believe there is a huge thread totally dedicated to this issue. The cliff notes version is that the cable you use has a huge effect. I believe that Behringer has gone so far as to start making the cables themselves for those that want a sure solution.