Members jvardon Posted June 24, 2009 Members Share Posted June 24, 2009 okay...i heard that when u sing higher notes...u need less air...ryt??....well for some reason i can not hold a note in head voice at all...i cant do 10 seconds and even 5 is a stretch.....and mix voice is a similar story...wat am i doing wrong...and how can i fix it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Andrew JD Posted June 24, 2009 Members Share Posted June 24, 2009 Pick a note on a piano or some instrument, something fairly easy for you to hit pitch wise, but a bit higher up. Sing the same note like you normally would. Now clench down on a pencil, (going the long way, across your mouth, like you'd eat corn on the cob). Sing the same note, but try singing 'above the pencil'. Direct the sound and note to move over the top of the pencil, rather than below it. You'll feel your larnyx move up when you sing above it. You'll also notice it's easier to get the note, using less air pressure than you would if you were 'below the pencil'. I can take zero credit for that, it's taught in Melissa Cross' "The Zen Of Screaming". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jvardon Posted June 24, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 24, 2009 Pick a note on a piano or some instrument, something fairly easy for you to hit pitch wise, but a bit higher up.Sing the same note like you normally would.Now clench down on a pencil, (going the long way, across your mouth, like you'd eat corn on the cob). Sing the same note, but try singing 'above the pencil'.Direct the sound and note to move over the top of the pencil, rather than below it. You'll feel your larnyx move up when you sing above it. You'll also notice it's easier to get the note, using less air pressure than you would if you were 'below the pencil'.I can take zero credit for that, it's taught in Melissa Cross' "The Zen Of Screaming". thanks.....i feel my larynx move up as usual...but i cant direct the sound... and arent we supposed to train to keep larynx in a general area with minimal movement?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dthraco Posted June 24, 2009 Members Share Posted June 24, 2009 Pick a note on a piano or some instrument, something fairly easy for you to hit pitch wise, but a bit higher up.Sing the same note like you normally would.Now clench down on a pencil, (going the long way, across your mouth, like you'd eat corn on the cob). Sing the same note, but try singing 'above the pencil'.Direct the sound and note to move over the top of the pencil, rather than below it. You'll feel your larnyx move up when you sing above it. You'll also notice it's easier to get the note, using less air pressure than you would if you were 'below the pencil'.I can take zero credit for that, it's taught in Melissa Cross' "The Zen Of Screaming". AWESOME! What a cool way to visualize going to head voice! Way stoked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SevenString Posted June 24, 2009 Members Share Posted June 24, 2009 thanks.....i feel my larynx move up as usual...but i cant direct the sound...and arent we supposed to train to keep larynx in a general area with minimal movement?? Yeah, based on everything I've ever heard or been taught, if the larynx is moving up in the throat, you're doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jvardon Posted June 24, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 24, 2009 Yeah, based on everything I've ever heard or been taught, if the larynx is moving up in the throat, you're doing it wrong. my larynx has always moved up since i found my head voice.....it heard it's like that for everyone until u train it to stay down.... i'm trying to train it with something i heard of called the yogi bear exercise...just talk like yogi bear basically...but i can only do that in chest voice...not in head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members romvert Posted June 26, 2009 Members Share Posted June 26, 2009 my larynx has always moved up since i found my head voice.....it heard it's like that for everyone until u train it to stay down....i'm trying to train it with something i heard of called the yogi bear exercise...just talk like yogi bear basically...but i can only do that in chest voice...not in head... The whole idea of "trying to reach head voice with a high larynx position" is wrong from the get go; don't listen to it. The term head voice refers to resonance in the mask and nasal cavity mostly, and has nothing to do with the Larynx being high, or a constricted throat, which you will end up with by following that advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jvardon Posted June 26, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 26, 2009 yeh...i get the constricted throat...probably why my head voice is very weak...but thats what i was taught to do to access my head voice...i dont no anyother way...i was told to make say neigh in a light airy tone...and my voice dirfted up into my headvoice...is there anyway to fix this..and stop my throat consticting?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members opusthe2nd Posted June 26, 2009 Members Share Posted June 26, 2009 Larynx is always to stay neutral/down. If it goes up, you are doing it wrong. Open your throat more, no tension on any neck muscles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jvardon Posted June 26, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 26, 2009 i cant open my throat...i dont feel tension apart from my sligtly tight throat...but i tried swing my head side to side (slowly) once to check if i had alot of tension...and after a few minutes my neck was killign me...so i have alot of tension...brought on my raised larynx.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AzraelsWings Posted June 26, 2009 Members Share Posted June 26, 2009 yeh...i get the constricted throat...probably why my head voice is very weak...but thats what i was taught to do to access my head voice...i dont no anyother way...i was told to make say neigh in a light airy tone...and my voice dirfted up into my headvoice...is there anyway to fix this..and stop my throat consticting?? When you do that bratty nay exercise, your larynx will naturally rise. For many people thats the easiest way to start accessing your head voice. That said, you should strive for a relaxed jaw, neck, and throat while you do that exercise. You also want to add some low larynx exercises, the dopey mum, gugs, etc. Again, the trick is not to try to force your larynx any particular position with these exercises, it's to gently alter the sound so that your voice coordinates in particular ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members opusthe2nd Posted June 26, 2009 Members Share Posted June 26, 2009 You can also start by singing "ahhh's". That will naturally let your larynx drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jvardon Posted June 26, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 26, 2009 When you do that bratty nay exercise, your larynx will naturally rise. For many people thats the easiest way to start accessing your head voice. That said, you should strive for a relaxed jaw, neck, and throat while you do that exercise.You also want to add some low larynx exercises, the dopey mum, gugs, etc.Again, the trick is not to try to force your larynx any particular position with these exercises, it's to gently alter the sound so that your voice coordinates in particular ways. i my throat, neck and jaw felt relaxed when i first accessed head voice...now my throat is no longer relaxed....i cant get a dopey sound in head voice so the "mum's" and "gug's" dont really work....they dont lower my larynx.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AzraelsWings Posted June 27, 2009 Members Share Posted June 27, 2009 i my throat, neck and jaw felt relaxed when i first accessed head voice...now my throat is no longer relaxed....i cant get a dopey sound in head voice so the "mum's" and "gug's" dont really work....they dont lower my larynx.. Hmm. When you say that your throat isn't relaxed, can you be more specific? Is it pain, or just tension? Where, in particular, is the pain/tension? Also—and someone with more experience and a more developed head voice should probably chime in here—understand that when you first start to access your head voice it won't sound powerful, it may resemble the tone that you associate with falsetto. Can you achieve the dopey sound in chest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jvardon Posted June 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 27, 2009 my throat is only under tension.....no pain...i can get the dopey sound very easily in chest voice...when i first got my head voice is was just plain weak...you could barely hear it...my fasletto is much more powerful...with a different tone.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members romvert Posted June 29, 2009 Members Share Posted June 29, 2009 my throat is only under tension.....no pain...i can get the dopey sound very easily in chest voice...when i first got my head voice is was just plain weak...you could barely hear it...my fasletto is much more powerful...with a different tone.. Make sure you don't "reach up" for notes; you need to imagine virtually "going there", where the note is, without belting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jvardon Posted June 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 29, 2009 Make sure you don't "reach up" for notes; you need to imagine virtually "going there", where the note is, without belting. i wish i could belt....lol....i dont think i reach up...i sorta just go there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jvardon Posted June 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 30, 2009 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members romvert Posted June 30, 2009 Members Share Posted June 30, 2009 i wish i could belt....lol....i dont think i reach up...i sorta just go there... Always get a good breath before singing anything, and start light, in falsetto; arch up the back of your throat, like the sesation that you get at the begining of a yawn. Remember these things don't just happen overnight.Eventually, you'll get to the point where you can tap into a bit of head resonance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jvardon Posted June 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 30, 2009 i have head resonance...u shud read my question...the problem is my raised larynx and constricted throat...not finding my head voice...i have head voice its just weak, i'm guessing from my constricted throat...my falsetto cant connect to head voice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AzraelsWings Posted June 30, 2009 Members Share Posted June 30, 2009 I think that it might be best if you recorded a few clips for the really well-versed folk here to listen to. What range of your voice is this giving you problems in? To be honest, reading the range in your signature makes me wonder what coordinations you're really achieving those sounds in, as an F# above female high C seems more likely to be achievable in whistle voice than falsetto. Also, your head voice and falsetto (as defined by coordination) can't really connect. (A light head voice can sound like what most people associate with the word falsetto.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jvardon Posted June 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 30, 2009 I think that it might be best if you recorded a few clips for the really well-versed folk here to listen to. What range of your voice is this giving you problems in? To be honest, reading the range in your signature makes me wonder what coordinations you're really achieving those sounds in, as an F# above female high C seems more likely to be achievable in whistle voice than falsetto. Also, your head voice and falsetto (as defined by coordination) can't really connect. (A light head voice can sound like what most people associate with the word falsetto.) thanks for the advice...al post a few clips later today for you guys.....its my higher ranges...head voice only... it falsetto...am sure of it...when i sing fasletto...my voice at just above C6 gives out to breath and then I hit F#6...i can also just start singing from there and go down my falsetto range hitting the notes lost when going up... my head voice and falsetto sound very different...you'll find out in the clips i'll post later on...of you could go to the thread named "Show off your range"i'm somewhere near the end...i posted audio clips of me doing slides through both my modal and falsetto registers...sliding down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jvardon Posted July 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 1, 2009 [YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE] here's the vid...displaying my raised larynx and weak sound due to, i think, a constricted throat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vats Posted July 2, 2009 Members Share Posted July 2, 2009 Hey man, First of all, the larynx does not have to stay in a neutral position always, a larnyx that is tilted (back rises, front stays neutral) is perfectly normal and in fact, recommended. A tilted larynx allows for maximum vocal fold elongation, before the zipping of the folds (to go into head voice) begins. The larynx as a whole will typically rise and fall on different notes too, but this shouldn't be enough to be very noticeable, which your larynx on this video is. I'm not sure what kind of training you've had or the system you follow, if any (I'd guess SLS), but I would suggest the following: 1) Start with the lowest note at which your larynx starts to move uncontrollably.2) Sing that note in the softest possible voice, let it be a falsetto, but make sure it's soft and pure and that your larynx is relaxed on that and your throat is open.3) Work on raising the volume of the note very gradually all the while monitoring your larynx. Remember, volume and power come from abdominal support and basically the muscles of inhalation resisting those of exhalation, NOT from pushing with more breath.4) In general, also keep any eye out for other things that cause the vocal path to be blocked (lowered soft palette, back of the tongue rolled up etc.) It sounds like a long haul but you can't rush through this, you'll have to work hard and be patient. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members strat2 Posted July 2, 2009 Members Share Posted July 2, 2009 The whole idea of "trying to reach head voice with a high larynx position" is wrong from the get go; don't listen to it. The term head voice refers to resonance in the mask and nasal cavity mostly, and has nothing to do with the Larynx being high, or a constricted throat, which you will end up with by following that advice. I think this is the strongest advice so far on this thread, sadly it is being overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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