Thoughts on electronic drums

[vanlatte]

Our church has been struggling with stage volume for some time now and have tried the plexiglass shield, hot rod sticks and what not. The latest attempt to reduce stage volume is a search for an electronic kit.

 

I have played on some of these kits and have an idea what to stay away from, mainly the low end dt-express type thing and shoot for something like the Roloand V-drums. Another option is some sort of completely enclosed drum cage, I am not sure what that is but it sound like an isolation boothe. Aside from the eye sore and isolation that would create, it seems to me that going the cage route would entail more expense in the mic department.

 

Anyone here experienced with the pros and cons of dropping an accoustic kit and going all electronic? What about staying with real cymbals? I don't know if digital technology is good enough these days to allow the dynamics on cymbals like swells, etc.

 

Another thing to consider is monitors, we currently use Shure in ear moniters, not sure what model they are but I think they are the bottom of the line; can these handle the frequencies a drum kit will put out or do we have to look into upgrading those as well?

 

Any thoughts on this issue? I am mostly looking at a cost perspective, up front the church is excited about lowering stage volume with elcetric drums but I would like more information about other costs and factors associated with it.

[Rbts]

I bought a set of electronic drums three years ago for one reason only... which is that they were quiet. I love them.

 

Mine are the Roland V drums, and they are great.

 

I never really liked the e-drums that use rubber pads for drums, but these Roland drums with the mesh pads are very nice.

 

I played with a band for a while, and we used in ear monitors, and the drums were fine there. We actually were using direct ins for all the instruments, (with NO amps on stage) ... I loved it.

 

I have had several drummers play my kit... and admitedly, some do not seem to like the e-drums... because of course there are some differences, and some limitations... that having been said, since I started playingmine around, I have now seen a few other drummers in town ( and one of the very best in town) taking out e-drums sets..

 

If having a low stage volume is your goal, e-drums (especially the Roland mesh head drums) would certainly be a big help. I really really like mine.

[vanlatte]

Originally posted by Rbts I bought a set of electronic drums three years ago for one reason only... which is that they were quiet. I love them. Mine are the Roland V drums, and they are great. I never really liked the e-drums that use rubber pads for drums, but these Roland drums with the mesh pads are very nice. I played with a band for a while, and we used in ear monitors, and the drums were fine there. We actually were using direct ins for all the instruments, (with NO amps on stage) ... I loved it. I have had several drummers play my kit... and admitedly, some do not seem to like the e-drums... because of course there are some differences, and some limitations... that having been said, since I started playingmine around, I have now seen a few other drummers in town ( and one of the very best in town) taking out e-drums sets.. If having a low stage volume is your goal, e-drums (especially the Roland mesh head drums) would certainly be a big help. I really really like mine.

 

Thanks for your input;

 

Do these drums have more than one out? Can you have lines going to the house as well as a personal monitor?

 

Just wondering because our sound guys are *ahem* less than on the ball most of the time

 

Would suck to not have anything in ear and be at the mercy of silent pads...

 

How are the cymbals? Are they sensative enough to do things like swells?

[abzurd]

Our band recently made the switch to V drums. 3 of the 5 of us use IEM's as well.

 

There are 2 things to consider - 1) The kit and 2) The module.

 

1) Drums - we settled on a Hart Studio Elite kit. mesh heads, real snare.

 

2) Module - Roland TD8 - 4 assignable outputs (we do kick, snare, toms, cymbals). headphone out can also be used as a "more me" for IEM's or our powered monitor wedge. Cheap modules only have 2 outs so the sound crew won't have much control over the mix.

 

This will reduce stage volume dramatically. ALso, no open mics from the drums, no need for a lot of fancy processing on the drum channels. Really simplifies things.

[moody]

My originals trio uses them.

 

They take a long time to set up unless the drummer is really well organised. Our drummer is and takes only a trifle longer than an accoustic drum kit.

 

The top of the range roland kits have I think 8 outputs (assignable). We use 6 live and for recordign. (kick, snare, stereo toms, stereo cymbols). We really should put the highhats on a 7th send.

 

They are great for rehearsals at 11pm in a suberban garage - no one has ever complained about our levels.

 

Live, depending on the quality of the kit it can be nice to have some real components - but we don't.

 

Oh, and the top of the range kits also allow you to do things like choking the cymbols (necessary live).

[humble_pie]

I have a Roland TD8 and some VDrums. I learned not to skimp on the drums or the brain after struggling briefly with some crappy Pintechs.

 

Using acoustic cymbals will still create volume problems. You'll have to turn the drums up so that they're equal to the cymbals, and you're back to square one.

 

The TD8 has a nice mallet crash setting that lends itself to swells. Your drummer will have to play with settings to learn how to get things programmed so he can get them to do what he or she wants.

 

If your drummer doesn't learn the kit, if they don't learn the brain, they aren't going to like playing it, and life will be miserable for everyone.

[Preacher Will]

The drummer in my band recently made the switch and we absolutely love them!! As far as the specs on his kit all I know is that they are mid-range Rolands. What I do know is that they:

 

1) Set up and tear down as fast as an acoustic kit.

2) Take up a third the room--both on the floor and in transit.

3) Weigh a fifth as much when humping them in and out.

4) Eliminate problems of excess stage volume.

5) Give us much better control over the mix.

6) Reduce the cost of micing the drums to zilch.

7) Free up a half-dozen inputs on the mixer.

8) Give us a toy box full of additional sound effects to play with.

9) Give us greater control over the drum level in the monitors.

 

Some other observations:

 

Our drummer likes the feel of the pads and has no desire to go back to an acoustic kit. In fat, he unloaded his to one of our pianists. I understand some drummers can't stand them. If you're trying to make someone play on them who can't stand them, you're not going to be doing anyone a favor, regardless of the advantages.

 

I think that they sound terrific. My guess is that, if you were to A-B an electronic kit directly against an acoustic kit, the acoustic would sound "better." Certainly, they wouldn't sound the same. But, if all you're hearing is the electronics, they sound really good. I can't tell that they're not the real thing. For us, they've been a God-send.

 

The Preacher

[Old Steve]

For your situation, it sounds like the pros outweigh the cons.

 

I personally prefer the feel, sound, and general cathartic release I get from playing acoustic drums. That being said, acoustic drums can only do so much.

 

If your drummer isn't completely against playing an e-kit, it sounds like a good move on your part. If he is completely against it, I think it's still a good enough idea for you that you should try pretty hard to get him to convert...at least for the worship services where volume is an issue.

 

Building a plexiglass fishbowl is a pain, and may actually convince the drummer that now that he's encased in kryptonite he can go back to bashing away....with a good set of electronic drums, he can hit as hard as he wants and you can just turn the volume down.

 

I also imagine that people at your services aren't necessarily there just to be wowed by the band. In a worship situation, IMHO, the key is to get your sound as clean as possible so that the music sounds good overall, and does nothing to detract from the service. In that respect, e-drums are ideal...always in tune, drums sound just like CD's, no rattles or buzzes...perfect every time. Add to that the other advantages (millions of sounds at your fingertips, much easier for the soundguy to deal with (sound goes into the board pre-processed to sound 'perfect'...just adjust the gain and set the slider on 1 or 2 channels!).

 

As for flexibility of signal routing, I'm pretty sure that the top-end modules are very flexible. Roland even makes a v-drum specific amp/monitor system that you could hook up so the drummer wouldn't be dependent on the monitor guy to get his sound back to him. With in-ears, he could also feed his monitor feed and a split run of the v-drums into a cheapy 2 channel mixer and mix his own signal pretty easiliy. That way if the monitor guy accientially switched the board off or something, he'd still have a direct feed from the v-drum coming in so he could hear himself.

 

Sure, electronic drums will never be able to mimic real drums and cymbals (especially cymbals) perfectly, but what they may lack in feel or authenticity, they more than make up for in convenience and flexibility.

[vanlatte]

Thanks everyone for all the input, it is very informative!

 

I hadnt thought about the commitment required from the drummer to learn the ins and outs of the brain...I can see myself spending a lot of time playing around with it.

[Old Steve]

Originally posted by vanlatte I hadnt thought about the commitment required from the drummer to learn the ins and outs of the brain...I can see myself spending a lot of time playing around with it.

 

Are you the drummer? Just wondering.

 

Anyway, it might turn out that one of the pre-recorded kits on the brain sounds just the way you want it, and once it's set you'll never touch it. I've seen stranger things happen.

[Rbts]

I have three comments//

 

Whoever taalked about the Hart pads with the Roland Brain has a very good idea for saving money... I know a guy who plays the Harts, and he likesthem fine.... The Roland Brain is probably the way to go for the controler though.. and of course, the TD 10(the new one) isnicer than the TD 8.....but the TD * is pretty awesome anyhow.

 

There are many many ways to get a good monitor send or two for the drummer... you can figure something out. The TD 8 has one stereo output... both left and right... but that is really all...(there is a "direct output), but it is without any of the signal processing that makes the drum kit sound good)... anyhow... like I say, many ways to get a monitor feed.... ONE of which would be to run the set in mono, and run one side as your mixer send, and the other as your monitor send? You will figure something out..

 

Lastly... while the TD 8 has a tremendous amount of detailed styling of the sounds that can be done... I have been delighted wiuth the presets. Surely if I were a full time professional drummer or somesuch I would be working harder to "dial it in", but fthe presets sound so good that I feel my time is better spent practicing?

[towndog]

Roland is discontinuing the TD10 so check around - you may be able to find a good deal on one.

 

The new TD20 will be replacing the TD10 as Rolands flagship module.

 

I have a TD10 and unless you can get a really good deal on one would recommend going with a DDRUM4 module. I own the TD10 and have a friend who has the DDRUM4, and I personally think they sound more like true acoustic drums - plus you can download sounds from the clavia website.

[vanlatte]

Originally posted by Old Steve Are you the drummer? Just wondering. Anyway, it might turn out that one of the pre-recorded kits on the brain sounds just the way you want it, and once it's set you'll never touch it. I've seen stranger things happen.

 

I am one of them, I was the main guy for a while but got burned out and have been taking some time off. I am pretty sure if one of these kits showed up I would go nuts on it and put it through its paces! Sounds like fun to me.

 

Although giving complete control to the soundguys is rather terrifiying to me...