Members stateofstatic Posted August 20, 2007 Members Share Posted August 20, 2007 I'm considering this, or the Beta 87A as my next purchase. Sing alternating lead and harmonies for a country-rock band (three lead singers, FUN to mix). Been using a band member's SM58, and I can't take it anymore. I have to use two different methods of "working" the mic, both of which don't fair particularly well with the Shure. High country harmonies require me to back off the mic about 8-12" and sing at a smooth, medium volume. Problem is, without massive compression and heavy gain on the mic channel the volume drops considerably and it thins me out a lot. If i get closer, I can easily overpower the lead, so I usually resort to backing away and singing louder, straining my voice faster. With lead vocals I have a very dynamic range (the need for lower compression)...problem here is that eating the mic for quieter passages to get the right the volume, that boomy proximity effect is huge and muddies up vocal intelligiblity. The only thing I can say that I like about the sound of this mic is when I'm about 6-8" back really belting out notes. Unfortunately 1 out of 3 just won't do the trick. I've used to use a OM6 before in my old alt-rock group I fronted, very predictable and clean sound. But after thinking about it for a while, I upgraded my bass and amp rig with top of the line gear, and it was like night and day. So why use a cheapy mic for my vocal insturment? Anyway, any insight would be helpful here folks...also found a KMS105 on craigslist for $350 Some examples of my vocals so you can examine my timbre:http://www.myspace.com/chaseelliottband (to understand the dynamics I was talking about, listen to "Johnny and June" and then "Makeup Lay") Thanks in advance!-Chase Elliott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin4269 Posted August 20, 2007 Members Share Posted August 20, 2007 Great mic. 'Course so is the OM6, far from a "cheapy" mic, as you discribed it. I suspect what would make you happiest would be the KMS105. It's expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stateofstatic Posted August 20, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2007 I know the OM6 isn't a cheapy...it worked well for what I used it for before (loud rock vocals), but I think if I'm gonna spend some money why not get the best I can one time instead of upgrading 3-4 times? How is the range (my room to move) on the VX5 while maintaining a consistent tone? The only thing I worry about a little with the KMS105 is that certain reviews I read said it had a thinner sound (due to the 120hz internal rolloff) better suited to female vocals or high tenors. Good for harmonies, not as good to cover a four octave range I suspect...that being said I like that the VX5 has the roll-off switch on the outside so I can A/B the effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin4269 Posted August 20, 2007 Members Share Posted August 20, 2007 My experience with the VX5 was an AB situation, and I havn't giged with it. I have used the Neumann, and the OM6, and the Beta87a. Here's what I recall. The VX5 was very full. Very sensitive. There would be no accusations of thin or problems with picking you up at a distance. I seem to remember the typical Audix directivity, much like the OM6. Keep it pointed straight at you or there is a quick drop off of volume and presence. Also, the mic could be a little "brilliant" in the highs for some singers. if you have problems with sibilance or harsh enunciations this might not be the mic for you. Good mic, I was impressed, but decided I didn't really need it for my inventory. I would absolutely recommend it to someone who felt it complimented their voice after trying it, but I'm not sure you'd want to buy any high dollar mic with out giving it a test drive first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stateofstatic Posted August 20, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2007 I agree...I'd like to try before I buy, but I can't seem to find anyone (even my local guitar center) that has a VX5 in stock. I've got a guy from LA that can get me one for wholesale cost so its really tempting. And to think I live 35min away from the Audix factory! Your description does seem to fit the bill as to what I'm looking for though... Sibilance used to be a problem till I got a Behringer VX2000. Normally I hate Behringer's {censored}e, but for $50 used its sounds so close to the Focusrite VoiceMaster Pro ($650) I can't complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stateofstatic Posted August 21, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 21, 2007 Oh one more to add to the list...the AT AE5400. I was told that this mic has the same capsule at the AT4050, which I've used many times in the studio and sounds frickin beautiful. Any take on this one? I can get it for $275... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted August 21, 2007 Members Share Posted August 21, 2007 all those mics listed are nice condensor alternatives for singing. I listened to the two cuts on your myspace and honestly didn't hear the troublesome attributes you mentioned, no wildly swinging dynamics or anything out of the ordinary. Nice stuff by the way. The SM58 is no "cheapie" mic comparable to upgarding your bass rig. It's still wildly popular with some of our finest singers. I've gone back to one recently, along with the new Heil Pr20. I just don't know that you'll find your solution from a mic. I like the AE3300 and 5400 on quiet type gigs..and in the studio too. There's a nice fidelity to a condensor mic. But I can't see either one fixing the things you're looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stateofstatic Posted August 21, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 21, 2007 yes the dynamics are even in the recordings (quiter vocals tracked 4-6" with 2.5:1 comp ratio, blaring stuff tracked 8-12" with 6:1), I know my way around a studio...but reproducing that AND harmonies is proving extremely difficult with the SM58, not to mention that the actual vocal sound changes considerably depending on distance. There is a very small gap (maybe a 1" range) where I don't notice the EQ shift, and its right on the edge of bumping the proximity effect. Just want something more consistent, so I don't feel like I have to try to adjust my timbre and also so I don't strain my voice. We play five hour sets, five nights a week when we're on the road...which we're heading for in another week for almost two months. I won't be able to pick anything decent up to try if I don't do it now (we play places like Bismark, ND) and we'll be gone to long to be in the 30 day return window, so I wanna make sure what I grab doesn't end up on evilbay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin4269 Posted August 21, 2007 Members Share Posted August 21, 2007 Why don't you grab your 58 and run down to the Audix plant? I'm serious. I'll even give you a phone number if you don't want to look it up. If you can talk to the right guy, I'm pretty sure someone there is willing to let you in, and let you try most any mic they have. Might as well check out the VX5 & VX10. I think with the low roll off and the increased sensitivity you will be happy with the VX5. And if you get it wholesale, you might be able to sell it for more that you paid if you don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jamesewells Posted August 22, 2007 Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 The KMS-105 is a fine mic, no doubt, but if you play on a loud stage the "stage wash" from the backline comes through to FOH loud and clear. My singer went from the KMS-105 to the OM6 for that very reason. With the Audix, she can say something on stage to the band without it going out to the crowd through the mains. We still use the Neumann for the quieter jazz gigs. It is outstanding for that. YMMV. Jim WellsTallahassee, FL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stateofstatic Posted August 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 22, 2007 Well...I made a trip out to a Guitar Center that had the VX5, Beta 87A, the e935, the AE4100, an Electro-Voice (think it was the ND367S), and the KMS105. Hooked up to a pair of Peavey SP2 cabs (we will most likely purchase the powered versions of these soon) and heres what I got: The Neumann KMS105: Thin on the bottom end, could never get a deep tone out of it, sang folsom prison to no avail. However, definitely the smoothest and most articulate of the group. Actually handled feedback pretty well. The Shure Beta 87A: This is the sound I would mix down for a pop vocal in the studio. Almost over the top highs, almost. Good feedback rejection, on and off axis really changed the sound, pretty smooth through the rest of the spectrum, can sing loud without distortion, proximity effect was gradual enough to know where to back off though it stuck out a bit more. A night and day difference to the SM58, but also a night and day difference to the KMS105. The Electro-Voice ND367S: Very nice mic...was punchy, sound stayed consistent within a 3-4" range (on and off axis), good feedback rejection. Proximity effect bumped the low end into distortion rather easily though, and when belting out higher notes, you could hear a little graininess. The Audio-Technica AE4100: REALLY wanted to try the AE5400, but it seems no one in Portland has one! Anyway, again...3-4" working room, very subtle proximity, low feedback, and I could belt out notes with my lips on the mic with barely any distortion. Downside, this guy sounded a little flat...nothing really stood out compared to all the other mics. In a way thats a good thing I guess, you can EQ to taste...since it did everything else pretty darn well. The Sennheiser e935: My favorite of the dynamic mics! Sound is similar to the Beta 87a, slightly exaggerated high end gave a little more bite, low feedback, but the best part...I could move forward and back a full 6" and it sounded the same. Like turning down a big slow volume knob! Now, the proximity effect was big, and it did distort quite noticeably close up, but with the range this gives you to move, you never have to eat a mic again! The Audix VX-5: This mic really pissed me off. It sounds BETTER (on my voice anyway) than the Neumann, had almost a FOOT of uncolored range on it, NO distortion unless right up on the mic screen, the proximity effect actually complimented the sound in quiet deep parts (didn't sound like two different singers), sounded great on and off axis. I was in love...EXCEPT the damn SOB kept giving feedback!!! Mic was in the same place as all the others (12ft away from mains), and I even turned the gain down a bit. Everytime, certain sillibant sounds would get it right to the edge of feedback. I used the hand-cup test on all mics (cup your hands around the mic ball to determine freq spikes) and every mic passed but this one. The Sennheiser e935 seems like the best compromise...its cheaper and does everything I want it to. But I love the sound of the VX-5 so much, I might just buy a Peavey Feedback Ferret with it and call it a day. Man, I always considered Audix to be the king of feedback rejection...WHY HAVE YOU FAILED ME!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stateofstatic Posted August 23, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 Let me revise that last post...I went in today, tested the mics again in front of a 600w floor monitor. With the pad and low cut switch engaged on the VX-5, it handled feedback just as well as the other condensers...I went ahead and bought it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Egibson Posted October 29, 2014 Members Share Posted October 29, 2014 The e935 is my go-to for live gigs. I really like Sennheiser. I was ruunning sound for a Presbyterian pilgrimage and gave the lead singer an EV ND767, but she pulled an e935 out of my box. I also have a couple of KMS 105s for choir solos and someone with formal voice training keep a couple of 58s only for someone who MUST have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Egibson Posted October 29, 2014 Members Share Posted October 29, 2014 Continued...I ended up using the Neumann as a podium mic because it was the only thing that could handle the feedback. I felt like I was taking the trash to the city dump in the trunk of a Bently. You get the Neumann shimmer and pay the Neumann price, but it doesn't have the in-your-face sound I like for Christian rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted October 29, 2014 Members Share Posted October 29, 2014 A microphone is a tool and finding the right tool for the job for your vox is trying out several vox mics and finding the right "fit" for you.Simply buying one without trying several is a crap shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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