Archtops: carved top vs. solid pressed top?

[aclarke]

I'm getting close to making an archtop purchase, mainly for use as an acoustic instrument - the amplification angle isn't that big of a consideration at this point.

 

I've been looking at these:

Eastman 805 (all carved)

 

D'Aquisto Cremona (pressed solid)

 

and:

D'Aquisto Solo (pressed)

 

The Solo is by far my favorite looking guitar, and while I've been able to A/B it against other D'Aquistos, I have not been able to compare to a carved archtop. All I know is it sounds better than a laminate.

 

Anyone have any experience with D'Aquistos? Obviously these are the modern re-issues, not the originals... What can I expect with a pressed solid top over a carved top? Is there any difference?

[Gary Palmer]

All that glitters is not gold and the same can be said of the solid:laminate top comparison. So many aspects come into play during a build, but all I can suggest is that - if you're willing to consider paying D'Aquisto money - you're best bet is to play as many instruments as possible before taking the plunge and buying the one that sings to you.

 

Instrument voicing tends not to be as good acoustically if an instrument is targetted toward plugged-in play, but one that's made primarily as a non-electric model will tend to provide the best of both worlds with electrics added. With that in mind, laminates are very often used on instruments intended for electrical output, but much depends upon the maker specification, laminate quality, bracing, etc., etc.

[aclarke]

Thanks Gary, good advice... but it doesn't quite answer the question, as I'm not considering laminates here .

 

The D'Aquistos are solid wood, but pressed to the arched top/back form. The Eastmans are solid wood carved to the arched form.

 

I don't know very much about the process, but it's similar to what's used in pressing a laminate top.

[Gary Palmer]

I never said you were considering laminates, but I did suggest trying out as many instruments as possible because "Solid top" doesn't necessarily mean a guitar possessing one will sound any good.

 

I was sure D'Aquisto carved his archtops.

[mjuenem]

Interesting question: "carved versus pressed" both being solid. I wonder which process disturbs the natural grain line the most, or if that even affects the tonal qualities at all? I am pondering it now but I haven't hearding anything either way. So I take it you are saying that pressing is how they make the laminate archtops, and these D'Aquisto solids are manufactured in a similar fashion?

 

I take it that the pressing process involves heat and moisture?

[Gary Palmer]

Yes, veneers are glued and laid down - in a specific order - in a concave former before a convex former is applied in sequence and clamped into place. This avoids placing unnecessary stress on a full thickness steamed solid top plate and risking grain fracture/splitting during the curing process.

 

"Pressed" typically implies the use of laminate.

[guitarcapo]

Personally I've found that laminate tops tend to be the better option if the guitar is going to be plugged in. You get a a more even response without feedback or hot notes when playing all over the fretboard. The guitar might sound a little less vibrant played unplugged, but you have a less hostile beast in your hand when you plug in.

 

But getting back to pressed vs. carved:

 

My opinion is IN GENERAL that pressed is better product when dealing with a mass produced/factory guitar. The top is milled to a very uniform thickness, and the pressing mold is going to be generally more accurate than automated carving in creating a uniform top. Bear in mind that these Chinese archtops probably aren't carved and tap tuned by hand...but instead processed by a CNC router that's not taking any of the wood's unique qualities into account.

When heat-pressing a flat board, you're taking more of this variability out of the equation because you are processing the wood more.

 

But this is definitely a HUGE generalization on my part and the variabilty of spruce in general will guarantee that there will be fantastic sounding examples of either guitar design based on how the planets line up when the guitar is built etc...As always, your best bet is to play the guitars instead of worrying about the spec sheet. Solid spruce will age better and might be more resonant than lam, but that might not be a good thing plugging in.

[Gary Palmer]

The only drawback with "heat & steam pressing" is in the way the sound/backboard is bent along more than one plain. If the timber/process is flawed problems can arise later in life if it goes un-noticed during production and that's much the reason why press forming is generally preserved for laminates.

 

NB. D'Aquisto & D'Angelico used to carve their archtops.

[guitarcapo]

I have a few of those old Kay/Harmony archtops around from the 40's 50's. Most of them were heat pressed with solid spruce tops.They sound great and I've never personally had a problem with them other than neck resets, refrets and the typical stuff guitars need over time. They're a great deal when you buy them used because they're often solid wood and cheap when you fix them. Sometimes I'll flip them back on Ebay for a quick profit after doing some routine tech work but a few I just don't want to part with.

 

Harmony Patricians are fun inexpensive solid wood heat pressed archtops. You see them on Ebay all the time. Great guitars if you know how to refurbish them.

[aclarke]

 

I was sure D'Aquisto carved his archtops.

 

 

You're giving me Waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy too much credit to assume I'm talking about buying a real honest to gods D'Aquisto here. These are the re-issues, currently on offer via aria's custom shop. Guess I should have mentioned that. The real deal is a *bit* out of my league...

[guitarcapo]

Yea. Some people bought the rights to used D'Aquisto's name. D'Angelico too.

Manufactured in Asia but not really the same thing. I think Fender made some D'Aquisto electrics too. He licensend his name on them or something.

 

Here in my neighborhod in Florida there's a guy who bought the rights to the DeLorean name. He hand builds, repairs and offers parts for DeLoreans.

You can buy a brand new 2008 DeLorean from him.

[aclarke]

 

The only drawback with "heat & steam pressing" is in the way the sound/backboard is bent along more than one plain. If the timber/process is flawed problems can arise later in life if it goes un-noticed during production and that's much the reason why press forming is generally preserved for laminates.

 

 

This line of thinking is what brought me to post the thread, more or less. I'm worried about two things: (a)top cracks developing and other potential structural mishaps stemming from the pressed top process as the guitar ages, and (b) any undefinable tonal qualities that I'd be potentially missing out on with one vs. the other.

 

I've narrowed my search down to the three models posted, and my decision is at something of a tipping point. If I could buy all three, I would, frankly. I've got to decide eventually though - they won't stay in their respective shops forever.

[Gary Palmer]

Yea. Some people bought the rights to used D'Aquisto's name. D'Angelico too. Manufactured in Asia but not really the same thing. I think Fender made some D'Aquisto electrics too. He licensend his name on them or something. Here in my neighborhod in Florida there's a guy who bought the rights to the DeLorean name. He hand builds, repairs and offers parts for DeLoreans. You can buy a brand new 2008 DeLorean from him .

 

No Flux Capacitor, no deal.

[Gary Palmer]

 

This line of thinking is what brought me to post the thread, more or less. I'm worried about two things: (a)top cracks developing and other potential structural mishaps stemming from the pressed top process as the guitar ages, and (b) any undefinable tonal qualities that I'd be potentially missing out on with one vs. the other. I've narrowed my search down to the three models posted, and my decision is at something of a tipping point. If I could buy all three, I would, frankly. I've got to decide eventually though - they won't stay in their respective shops forever.

 

 

I'd recommend you search for reviews on the particular models that interest you, but the problems I've mentioned do happen if poorly treated solid wood is used instead of laminate for bent tops and backs.

 

The best advice I can offer is for you to take your time, don't be rushed and avoid buying if you have any doubts.

 

In all honesty I prefer carved tops and backs.

[aclarke]

*bump*

Anyone else have anything to add? :poke:

[guitarcapo]

A really yummy pressed solid spruce top archtop electric is the Epiphone Elite Byrdland. Another one I'd love to own is the American made Gretsch White Falcons...but they cost about $6,000. Heritage makes them for Gretsch I believe.

[phil_harmonic]

 

*bump* Anyone else have anything to add? :poke:

 

 

I will just suggest you look at the Samick's too. They are pretty nice guitar for the price. I own a JZ4 and my guitar teacher liked it so much, he bought one himself (we both bought ours used off of E-Bay for about $500 each). A couple of his other students decided to buy Samicks too. The Eastman is better, but it costs a lot more too.

 

Cheers!

[simplygoodmusic]

I've played a D'Aquisto re-issue, and LOVED it, but the shop-owner, a trustworthy friend, told me he personally thought it was a one off. Anyone who played that guitar fell in love with it.

 

I've also played a bunch of eastmans. Some were good, some not so much. Maybe they aren't consistant, or maybe I just got real unlucky. Or maybe it was an opinion thing, or one of the other million factors affected me. But I would play before I buy if I were you.

[NotDead]

 

A really yummy pressed solid spruce top archtop electric is the Epiphone Elite Byrdland. Another one I'd love to own is the American made Gretsch White Falcons...but they cost about $6,000. Heritage makes them for Gretsch I believe.

 

 

I thought heritage carved all of their tops? I heard they even did that for the H35s, but I can't be certain anything more than that the tops are solid.