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  • #31
    Originally posted by DodgingRain


    I actually agree with most of what Jeez is posting and reminders are good things as well. Where we differ is really a matter of scale and scope, I find Jeez's scope of what constitutes composition to narrow.


    What you're doing is a rather advanced and bit beyond the basics. Doing things like wave sequences, rythmatic filter modulation, and such are all very awsome, but it presents a problem for new musicians from a learning standpoint. If you're new to theory, you're better of starting with a basic piano sound and learning some "old style" theory first. Then once you've got a good foundation of the basic classical theories down, go for the cool new stuff like altering timbres in musical sense.

    I think Kiru is right. You need your own thread, and we'll be looking forward to some good reading when we're bored at work.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by DodgingRain
      Besides, I never agree with you, Kirumamoru, anyway. Wait, I think I did once.

      Once or twice. I think I may have actually agreed with YOU on occasion. I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, and I would like to read your ideas, I just think that you should present them separately, is all.

      Kiru
      "Don't sell your life! Do whatever you really want to do. You must act as the master of your life, and then become free. No matter how difficult it is, no matter how unsuccessful it might seem, do whatever you want!"
      -- Michio Kushi

      The only way to settle questions of an ideological nature or controversial issues among the people is by the democratic method, the method of discussion, of criticism, of persuasion and education, and not by the method of coercion or repression.
      -- Mao Zedong

      Comment


      • #33
        Debussy was the first great composer to propose that one unusual chord could hang there, suspended, for it's own sake. Tone color as an end in itself, the chord not connected harmonically in any way to another. When a music critic indignantly asked Debussy what his rules of composition were, he replied, "My pleasure!"

        Of course, he was a genius. And even he started out idolizing Wagner and learning plenty of traditional harmony, sonata form, development and variation techniques, and so on. And before coming up with his revolutionary ideas on pedal technique, he had learned to play the piano in the first place-really well.
        "Music is the best"
        --Frank Zappa

        For a good time, try http://analogkid.us/yabb/YaBB.pl

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        • #34
          Scope too narrow? I prefer to think of it as broad, or abstract. The principals I'm discussing here are relevent to all styles and genres of music.

          Oscillator sync or step-sequencers aren't much use if you're temping an orchestral film score... just as marcato or pizzicato don't mean much when all your sounds started life as saw waves.

          Of course, most of the people here are interested in electronic music (although there are a significat proportion who are into jazz, prog-rock, etc).... and even within electronic music, there are so many and varied sub-genres that technicalities are often not applicable to all of them.

          The purpose of this thread is to be able to help any composer.


          If you (any of you) want to start a new thread to discuss the specifics of composing a particular genre or style, feel free. I'll probably contribute too.

          Don't look now, here comes tonight's feature special....

          Forever,




          Kim.
          The Composition Thread is sticky!
          There is no heavier burden than a great potential.- Unknown source

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          • #35
            Thank you! Thank you! And

            Welcome back! Tonight we're going to have a special look at Familiarity.

            Like some of our previous features, familiarity is probably something that you already know something about. Our post tonight is look at it in a little more detail and prompt the reader to be concious of it when composing in the future.

            Well: What is familiarity? In short, it is a way of describing the effect that a section of music has on its listener when the listener recognises something in the music. Of course, the opposite of familiarity is unfamiliarity - when the listener does not recognise something in the music.

            Things get interesting when we start to look at degrees of familiarity, and layers of familiarity.

            Degrees of familiarity refer to the idea that we don't just have "Familiar" and "Not Familiar" - there are many levels in between. For simplicity, let's breifly discuss "Not familiar", "Partially familiar", and "Completely Familiar".

            When a section of music is not familiar, it means the listener does not recognise it - this is usually because the material is new (has not been presented earlier). This can create uncertainty, but can also have an effect of opening up expectations for a piece - for example, a short unfamiliar section right after the introduction of a piece can give the impression that more will be revealed, or that the unfamiliar material will be developed (or revisited) later in the piece.

            When a section of music is partially familiar (a bit familiar), it is often because is bears some resemblance to previous material but it is changed, or developed. Some examples could be -


              Forever,




              Kim.
            The Composition Thread is sticky!
            There is no heavier burden than a great potential.- Unknown source

            Comment


            • #36
              No more comments? Is everyone already sick of this thread?

              Forever,




              Kim.
              The Composition Thread is sticky!
              There is no heavier burden than a great potential.- Unknown source

              Comment


              • #37
                I'm reading it... I just don't really have anything to say.

                Kiru
                "Don't sell your life! Do whatever you really want to do. You must act as the master of your life, and then become free. No matter how difficult it is, no matter how unsuccessful it might seem, do whatever you want!"
                -- Michio Kushi

                The only way to settle questions of an ideological nature or controversial issues among the people is by the democratic method, the method of discussion, of criticism, of persuasion and education, and not by the method of coercion or repression.
                -- Mao Zedong

                Comment


                • #38
                  Nope, not sick of it =)

                  Bach's Two-Part inventions made very creative use of "familiarity." If you can find the sheet music, it's worth playing through one or two - the "theme," or central idea, is presented in the first 4-8 beats, and the rest of the piece is just variations on that initial theme. Of course, Bach used some techniques that make the theme less than recognizable (like sequencing the notes backwards (D-C-E becomes E-C-D), but it's a great example of doing a lot with a little.

                  Unfamiliarity can serve as a refreshing change in a song - the perfect example is the "bridge" of a pop tune. Most pop tunes' structure is some variation on Verse-Chorus-Verse-Chorus-Bridge-V/C. The bridge is the new part, and usually utilizes a melody and/or chord progression not utilized previously in the song.

                  For fun, listen to some of your favorite tunes, and listen for when new material is introduced and when/if it's repeated.
                  Where would Kraftwerk be without the Beach Boys or James Brown? Where would hip-hop be without Kraftwerk?

                  - Ronan Harris

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                  • #39
                    Good evening viewers! For those of you still in the audience, we're going to discuss Expectation in composition.

                    ...and just like every night, I'll begin with a definition - What is expectation? Expectation is what happens when a listener anticipates a future event in the music. Put another way, it is when the listener has some idea of what will happen in the future of the music.

                    This is usually achieved through repetition. For example, if I present a pattern:

                    A A B C A A B C A A B ?

                    The listener would probably expect C to take place next (where the ? is).

                    Expectation can be a powerful tool for manipulating the experience of the listener. By being aware of patterns and the degree of repetition in your work, you can have a greater understanding of the expectations of the listener as they are listening to the piece.

                    If you have a section of music where you think the listener will be expecting something in particular, there are two things you (the composer) can do:

                      .

                      Once you can hear the effect, it gives you greater power to understand it, which in turn will help you to recognise it and use it in your own work.

                      So what the hell are you doing here? Go write some music!!

                      Forever,




                      Kim.
                    The Composition Thread is sticky!
                    There is no heavier burden than a great potential.- Unknown source

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Treves
                      For fun, listen to some of your favorite tunes, and listen for when new material is introduced and when/if it's repeated.


                      This is actually very important. To take this one step further, I suggest everyone listen to some music, while keeping in mind the principals discussed here.

                      This is sometimes called "Mindful Listening", and will help you identify how other composers have used composition techniques, possibly giving you ideas for your own work.

                      Forever,




                      Kim.
                      The Composition Thread is sticky!
                      There is no heavier burden than a great potential.- Unknown source

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        One thing that I like to do occasionnaly that plays on both familiarity and expectations is to add a measure at the end of a section of a song (usually a pre-chorus or bridge. The extra measure would repeat or hold out the chord(s) of the previous measure. Ususally these chord(s) would be offering some sort of tension (i.e. V or ii-V), which would then often resolve into the I chord of the next section (ussually the last chorus or a solo break). By adding the extra measure, the tension is prolonged and heightened, thus contributing to a more triumphant resolution.

                        One additional note: If these last 2 measures are based off the V chord, I will often play the first measure as a straight V chord, and the second as a V7, or sus2, or sus4 or augmented -- anything to add even more tension.

                        In terms of familiarity, this serves to change things up in the section just a bit, without really introducing something entirely new. In terms of expectation, it serves to delay the inevitable, and further heightened the expectation of the next part.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          There is a process that I've been experimenting with lately, esp. on 2 of my newest compositions. These tunes would follow the same intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus setup. But, I've also added a "jam" section where the solos get a little more breathing room and the section builds tension getting back to the chorus or verse. This section is usually about 16 measures(8 measures for each instrument). The familiarity is still there, but there is also a great deal of tension mounting up to the last chorus or verse.
                          http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...m?bandID=73567
                          Soul On Tap
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                          Chris Beard Band

                          current gear list:
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                          • #43
                            flux = development, familiarity = repetition
                            "Music is the best"
                            --Frank Zappa

                            For a good time, try http://analogkid.us/yabb/YaBB.pl

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Birdienumnum
                              For those fuddyduddy music majors like myself, it's all very familiar, in different terms--flux = development, familiarity = repetition, etc.


                              Read closer. Flux is not the same as development (unless your definition of development is different to mine). I might address this tonight.

                              Also, familiarity is not the same as repetition. Repetition is a composition technique. Familiarity is an effect that the music has on the listener. Repetition often causes familiarity.


                              Glad people are still reading this (hopefully even finding it useful!)


                              Forever,




                              Kim.
                              The Composition Thread is sticky!
                              There is no heavier burden than a great potential.- Unknown source

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                learning integrating enjoying
                                A technology distinguishable from magic is not sufficiently advanced.

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