Misc. A&R advice I heard a few years ago in LA...

I lived in LA for a couple of years, and I spoke with several A&R people at different times--both one-on-one and at seminars. Several of the things I heard from them go something like this:

** "The better the press kit, the worse the band."

** "Labels don't want to be approached. They want to find YOU." (i.e. don't spend time trying to get your demo in the hands of a label rep--labels are out there looking and they want to do the discovering).

** "Just worry about the music. Everything else will take care of itself." (i.e. bands spend too much time on marketing and promotion).

** "The cream rises to the top." (in response to a question about who gets record deals).

** "We're not looking for a specific genre or style. We want whatever is great." (in response to a question along the lines of "are you looking for another boy band"?)

** "Want to get signed? Be amazing. There's no way U2, REM, or(fill in the blank) WOULDN'T have gotten signed."

Does any of this strike a chord with anyone as being particularly true or false?

I think there is an element of truth (not absolute...) in each phrase except "Just worry about the music. Everything else will take care of itself." (i.e. bands spend too much time on marketing and promotion)."

I believe marketing & promo are crucial.

much of this is valid. The labels are looking...they are looking for R.O.I. They want to find acts that are gigging, selling self produced CDs in large numbers and are marketable. They toss unsolicited submissions by the thousands daily...anyone who thinks sending a CD to a label will get them heard is wasting everyone's time. But...they are usually way to dim to know what the 'next big thing' is, so they tend to copy each other, and wait until something lands in their lap...amazing? Maybe...moneymaking, definitely.

** "The better the press kit, the worse the band."

Bull{censored}. You can never have too good a press kit. That some {censored}ty bands may have them doesn't mean only {censored}ty bands have them.

** "Labels don't want to be approached. They want to find YOU." (i.e. don't spend time trying to get your demo in the hands of a label rep--labels are out there looking and they want to do the discovering).

This is a half truth at best. No, they usually don't take unsolicited demos, but they don't scour clubs and bars like they did 30 years ago, either. Generally, a band is introduced to the record company by a middleman who knows them and recommends you. Once you have a marketable product, it's more often about who you know and what they can do for you.

** "Just worry about the music. Everything else will take care of itself." (i.e. bands spend too much time on marketing and promotion).

Bull{censored}. When you're an unknown, you can't over promote or overmarket yourself. The lower level bar scene is full of great bands and brilliant players who will never go anywhere because they don't have the business sense God gave a goose.

** "The cream rises to the top." (in response to a question about who gets record deals).

Bull{censored}. A generality at best. Yes, sometimes it does. And sometimes it doesn't. And some times crap does. It depends on how well you promote and market it and who you know.

** "We're not looking for a specific genre or style. We want whatever is great." (in response to a question along the lines of "are you looking for another boy band"?)

Translation: "we're looking for the next marketable thing to maximize profits. This is how we define 'great'".

** "Want to get signed? Be amazing. There's no way U2, REM, or(fill in the blank) WOULDN'T have gotten signed."

Well, U2 and REM may have been amazing, but they were also commercial and marketable. And there are plenty of amazing bands and players who will never get anywhere, for a lot of reasons.

** "The better the press kit, the worse the band."

So, if we have a {censored}ty press kit, we are a great band?

But we don't need a press kit because....

** "Just worry about the music. Everything else will take care of itself." (i.e. bands spend too much time on marketing and promotion).

That just doesn't make sense. We are an original metal band, and the only way we have gotten anywhere is by busting our asses on marketing and promotion, with a GOOD press kit.

All absolutely true.

The people who disagree are likely the same people who worry about image and style and marketing, and treat music like a business. They're not going to get anywhere.

Music is art, and either you're going to get signed, or you're not. Period.

"Want to get signed? Be amazing." That is truth.

Get out, play shows, make absolutely incredible music. Either you'll get signed, or you'll have a hell of a lot of fun, and you won't waste your time and money and become a soulless douchbag trying to "market" your "image." It's win win.

** "The cream rises to the top." (in response to a question about who gets record deals).

Today is ashlee simpson's birthday.

She's 22.

She didn't rise to the top, she was poured on top with someone else's help.

** "We're not looking for a specific genre or style. We want whatever is great." (in response to a question along the lines of "are you looking for another boy band"?)

Come on, this goes against all the history of the music biz. How many times have certain scenes become popular, mined, exploited, and then abandoned? LA Hair metal, seattle grunge, etc etc etc. They see something that sells and go looking for something just like that that will also sell.

** "Want to get signed? Be amazing. There's no way U2, REM, or(fill in the blank) WOULDN'T have gotten signed."

Or be amazingly marketable.

The people who disagree are likely the same people who worry about image and style and marketing, and treat music like a business. They're not going to get anywhere.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

You're a comedian, right?

How's that whole "art thing" worked for you so far?

Originally posted by BlueStrat The people who disagree are likely the same people who worry about image and style and marketing, and treat music like a business. They're not going to get anywhere. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You're a comedian, right? How's that whole "art thing" worked for you so far?

Pretty well. I have a lot of fun, just had a lot of fun making an EP, we've saved up enough from shows to have it professionally mastered, and it's being released by a local indie label.

In the spring we hope to hit the road and play some Eastern coast dates, probably as far as Toronto and back, and then we'll see what happens from there.

The people who disagree are likely the same people who worry about image and style and marketing, and treat music like a business. They're not going to get anywhere.

Wow, so for all of your sold out shows in arenas you are playing, you didn't print one flyer, or advertise in ANY way?? That's all part of marketing....oh wait, you're not playing any sold out shows. Oh, OK

C'mon that made no sense. Music IS a business, and if you don't treat it as such you are making a huge mistake IMO.

Originally posted by guitarsjb The people who disagree are likely the same people who worry about image and style and marketing, and treat music like a business. They're not going to get anywhere. Wow, so for all of your sold out shows in arenas you are playing, you didn't print one flyer, or advertise in ANY way?? That's all part of marketing....oh wait, you're not playing any sold out shows. Oh, OK C'mon that made no sense. Music IS a business, and if you don't treat it as such you are making a huge mistake IMO.

Why would I be playing sold out shows in arenas? My current band has only been together for a little over a year.

Thinking that you can end up playing a sold out arena show because you give out 100 000 fliers makes little sense to me

I'm just sick of bands who, frankly, suck, but think they're going to get somewhere because they have marketing skills.

** "We're not looking for a specific genre or style. We want whatever is great." (in response to a question along the lines of "are you looking for another boy band"?)

Translation: "we're looking for the next marketable thing to maximize profits. This is how we define 'great'".

True. I frequently receive emails from Taxi, providing links to some A&R listings. Here are the latest of them:

http://www.taxi.com/industry2.php

I probably don't even need to point this out, but note the genre is in ALL CAPS. And next to it, they list names of bands "in the vein of" whatever they are looking for, the majority of whom happen to be platinum selling artists.

I think there may be a kernel of truth to what this guy says, that you can get too caught up in the business to the point where the product you are trying to market (your music) winds up suffering, but he appears to be oversimplifying just a tad.

Yeah, some might say that's debatable.

Originally posted by megadan Why would I be playing sold out shows in arenas? My current band has only been together for a little over a year. Thinking that you can end up playing a sold out arena show because you give out 100 000 fliers makes little sense to me I'm just sick of bands who, frankly, suck, but think they're going to get somewhere because they have marketing skills.

BWAHAHAHAHA! Come see us in 5 years after your "art" has been marginalized, you have been ignored, you're still playing dumps and you have nothing to show for any of the time you wasted.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Heh.

Like I said, I'll have had a lot of fun.

And what exactly would you like me to show? I all ready have two albums under my belt, I can only get more successful in the future.

I seriously doubt any of your bands are going to go any further than any of mine. Frankly, from a statistical point of view, we're all wasting our time

But I guess people don't realize that different cities work differently with regard to music scenes.

If you started proposing your way where I live, you'd probably be flamed just like I am

It's cool, we can always agree to disagree. Both sides have points. Glad you are having fun, so am I. That's what it's really about it having fun. But yeah, it's a business too. Give and take man.

Originally posted by megadan Heh. Like I said, I'll have had a lot of fun. And what exactly would you like me to show? I all ready have two albums under my belt, I can only get more successful in the future. I seriously doubt any of your bands are going to go any further than any of mine. Frankly, from a statistical point of view, we're all wasting our time But I guess people don't realize that different cities work differently with regard to music scenes. If you started proposing your way where I live, you'd probably be flamed just like I am

Yeah, you're probably right, from a musician's point of view. But I can tell you that record companies, radio stations, concert promoters, live music clubs, and record stores by and large don't give a rat's ass about your or my art, regardless of where we live. Their biggest concern is making money, and if what you or I produce doesn't make them any, it won't be traded in the marketplace for long, which is what the music business is all about. Sure, I like creating art as much as the next guy, but as soon as I attempt to make any money selling it, the reality is that it has to be what people want to buy or I might as well stay home and play in my basement, where I can make all the art I want.

I was just going to post...

There's defintely a balance needed... obviously both sides have valid arguments.

I think we can agree that

1. A band won't get anywhere without good music

2. A band won't get anywhere without good marketing.

Really you have to have both. It's kind of ironic cause I'm the one in my band who's always telling the other guys that we have to get out, and promote, and play with so and so and talk to bookers and the likes.

I still disagree with BlueStrat to an extent: Really I think we just need to realize that art and marketable music are not always mutually exclusive.

I think that making music people _like_ to hear would be my way of putting it - without good music, there's no sense marketing it. People want to hear something new and fresh, not the same old rehashed ideas, despite what their radio station presets might indicate

I think you can find a balance between something to sell and something that's art worthy, and that balance is creativity and intelligence.

Somewhere between damaged noise punk and Nickelback, there's good music to both you and I

here's an excellent post by gtrbass from this thread (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1294959)

check out the whole thread if you have time - many others also gave relevant insights on this topic.

I still disagree with BlueStrat to an extent: Really I think we just need to realize that art and marketable music are not always mutually exclusive.

Where did I say they were? I was responding to your statement that the OP's points were all "absolutely true", in your words (they aren't) , and that people who treat music as a business aren't going to get anywhere, also a blanket statement that is simply not true. The guy who regards it as a business, though he may be mediocre, will likely get a lot farther ahead financially than the brilliant artist who doesn't.

I've spent the last two years providing marketing services to artist management companies. Great promo materials ARE crucial, but they aren't going to save you if you suck.

Based on my experience, the single most important element to getting management, booking, signed, and building a career is having FANS. If you can't demonstrate that a bunch of people love you and your music, then it's pretty unlikely someone's going to sign you based on a demo no one but you and your mom has heard.

I'm coming to the party late, as always......

BlueStrat speaks the truth. I know a lot of major label guys (used to be one) and their primary motivation is money, fueled by paranoia, fear and politics. They SAY they want to discover you, and that your promo, etc. doesn't matter because once you figure out how to do the promo and marketing, the major label Secret Sauce is revealed to be a half-gallon of chicken {censored} in a weak marinade. They fear someone beating them to a band, or worse yet: Signing two "stiffs" in a row.

They fear their boss finding out they don't know {censored} and losing their jobs, which are always one stiff awy from a pink slip.

They SAY the music will "take care of itself" because, by and large, they are not musicians or songwriters and have no idea what we do. And there's little or no scientific marketing research going on to define what IS happening musically. So, they don't have a clue what's commercial, no less what's good.

Two kinds of bands get signed: Band with connections and bands with buzz. Do you see the words "image" "music" "amazing" "quality" or "innovation" in there? No you do not.

A&R is the glory gig at the label. It's the top of the food chain and everyone in every other department wants their job --- many have no compunctions about stabbing these poor bastards in the back. So, A&R guys fear the local promo guy in Atlanta sending a demo straight to the label CEO and getting it signed. Because if it's a hit, that promo guy moves into A&R and someone gets fired for signing a stiff.

I hope this explains some of the pat answers you'll hear from A&R.

hahahahahahaha stop it yer killin me here hahahahahahahahah

Originally posted by BlueStrat

** "The better the press kit, the worse the band."

Bull{censored}. You can never have too good a press kit.

Disagree.. I don't even read press kits, just give me a CD with a photo of the band, and let's listen. Have a myspace page, and thats all I need to get the voibe of the band..its much better then having wasted paper.

** "Labels don't want to be approached. They want to find YOU." (i.e. don't spend time trying to get your demo in the hands of a label rep--labels are out there looking and they want to do the discovering).

This is a half truth at best. No, they usually don't take unsolicited demos, but they don't scour clubs and bars like they did 30 years ago, either.

Not totally true either. I hit clubs at least 2 times a week with a VP of a major. We are there specifically to watch new unsigned bands.

** "Just worry about the music. Everything else will take care of itself." (i.e. bands spend too much time on marketing and promotion).

Bull{censored}. When you're an unknown, you can't over promote or overmarket yourself.

50/50 Great music will get a word of mouth buzz going pretty fast, and a good scout will be at a show within 2 months.

** "The cream rises to the top." (in response to a question about who gets record deals).

Bull{censored}. A generality at best. Yes, sometimes it does. And sometimes it doesn't.

Yep.

** "We're not looking for a specific genre or style. We want whatever is great." (in response to a question along the lines of "are you looking for another boy band"?)

Translation: "we're looking for the next marketable thing to maximize profits. This is how we define 'great'".

It's a business....but great is defined by an individual gut feeling that causes an A&R to want a band.

** "Want to get signed? Be amazing. There's no way U2, REM, or(fill in the blank) WOULDN'T have gotten signed."

Well, U2 and REM may have been amazing, but they were also commercial and marketable. And there are plenty of amazing bands and players who will never get anywhere, for a lot of reasons.

It's the music BUSINESS, so of course commercial and marketable are important. But what is marketable changes throughout the years, many ARs are hot looking for the generic radio rock band as much as you may think.

i couldnt make that post look right, so sorry for my failed attempt.

It's just like this:

1) Record companies like to make money

2) Money gooooooood!

3) They don't care if your talented

4) They care if you have a marketable face, and can pose a nice pouty look for the teen magazines.

5) They can hire real studio talent to make you look good, and do it by just paying union scale.

6)There are no more rock stars being made. The record companies broke that mold to maximize they're profits. What makes more business sense? Pay and renegotiate every few years with a real rock star for millions, or put a few thousand into an unknown, hype the crap out of them on MTV. Make them the next big thing. Pay them hardly nothing. Give em plenty of booze and dope to keep them,"in line". USe em, abuse em, throw them away before they are too big. And still make millions for the company. Follow that money