Members DanteRTS Posted April 19, 2006 Members Share Posted April 19, 2006 We were just offered a management contract. We reviewed the first version last night. While I have what I consider a descent grasp on contracts (i.e. Music Business degree), I wanted to throw out a few questions to the forum. #1. The managers % was written to be Gross. I'm sure that's pretty standard, but has anyone ever tried to get Net? #2. We're asking to keep merch sales out of the income stream the management company would get his % from. Think they'll go for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted April 19, 2006 Moderators Share Posted April 19, 2006 Originally posted by DanteRTS We were just offered a management contract. We reviewed the first version last night. While I have what I consider a descent grasp on contracts (i.e. Music Business degree), I wanted to throw out a few questions to the forum. #1. The managers % was written to be Gross. I'm sure that's pretty standard, but has anyone ever tried to get Net?#2. We're asking to keep merch sales out of the income stream the management company would get his % from. Think they'll go for that? Well, any manager worth his salt is going for a cut of 'gross' take...that's reality, since they know that when the bills are paid, and the taxes done, and the dust settles, there ain't much worth squabbling over. Now, as to merchandising being included in the income stream, alot will depend on how much merch you are already moving. If it is currently negligible, and will not fall into the manager's area of responsibility, then I would try to hold it out. However, if the manager will be responsiblefor purchasing, inventory, hiring salespeople, etc, they will argue for the cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted April 20, 2006 Members Share Posted April 20, 2006 What DM said. It depends on how involved the manager is in developing and producing merchandise. Back when I was with an agency in the 80s, they had a few bands they managed, and charged 20% of gross. However, the agency handled all their booking, all their promo, paid their bills, even paid bills of the individual band members who were on the road full time. (the band members paid their own bills, the agency did the banking for them). Plus, since they were getting 20%, the management worked really hard to get the bands into high dollar venues, usually 2500-3500 dollars a week plus rooms and one meal a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shredfit Posted April 20, 2006 Members Share Posted April 20, 2006 Originally posted by BlueStrat What DM said. It depends on how involved the manager is in developing and producing merchandise. Back when I was with an agency in the 80s, they had a few bands they managed, and charged 20% of gross. However, the agency handled all their booking, all their promo, paid their bills, even paid bills of the individual band members who were on the road full time. (the band members paid their own bills, the agency did the banking for them). Plus, since they were getting 20%, the management worked really hard to get the bands into high dollar venues, usually 2500-3500 dollars a week plus rooms and one meal a day. I hear ya Bluestrat. In fact, many of my more recent top dollar casino gigs have been 20 points for the agent. You just cannot get them gigs without them(the agents) and they know it(believe me I've tried) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beachbum Posted April 20, 2006 Members Share Posted April 20, 2006 "#1. The managers % was written to be Gross. I'm sure that's pretty standard, but has anyone ever tried to get Net?" Someone taking a % of the gross is not a good scenario for you. Make a counter offer for the manager to have a % of the net. (Scenario: Manager receives $200 right off the top of a $1000 gross. Then the manager allocates $700 of the remaining figure toward advertising, because advertising benefits the gross figure and his cut comes from the gross. Band members split $100 for their pay before taxes. A manager will be much more considerate regarding how money is allocated for expenses if he receives a % of the net. Also of crucial importance: does the manager allocate funds for advertising & expenses or do you?) As far as situation #2 - make a counter offer on this point as well. With any contract the management can say "It's standard policy" and you can say, "We're not a standard client". Standard basically does not exist in a negatiation setting - {censored} 'standard'. Ask for what you want, all they can say is 'no'. Then if it's necessary and you really want the contract make a decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beachbum Posted April 20, 2006 Members Share Posted April 20, 2006 And if someone tells you that 'they never heard of that happening', ask yourself if it matters a bit if they ever heard of it or not? It could happen to you. Need further convincing even though these contracts were standard back when Christ was a stepchild? Check this out: "Former Nine Inch Nails manager ordered to pay up $2.9 million for allegedly cheating Trent Reznor out of millions. Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails filed the lawsuit in 2004 in New York claiming that former manager John Malm mismanaged the bands finances and actually stole money from them. Apparently Malm had tricked Reznor into signing a contract that assigned the manager 20 percent of Gross earnings. Anyone familiar with music contracts can readily see the problem. The assignment should have been of NET income, not GROSS earnings. This means that Malm would have received 20 percent of all earnings, before taxes and before more important distributions like his band member payments." Use Yahoo or Google to learn more, and READ your contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Janx Posted April 20, 2006 Members Share Posted April 20, 2006 I've got no experience with this, but here's my uninformed opinion anyway Couldn't one argue that the manager is a member of the band. Each member of the band is really an employee. The employees of the band get paid based on contribution to the business, after expenses. How you pay the manager will affect his motivation to do work for you. Just like any other member of the band. If he gets more for doing less than the drummer, the drummer will quit, and you've got no band. So everybody needs to have an relatively equal stake in the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members germanicus2112 Posted April 21, 2006 Members Share Posted April 21, 2006 Go see an entertainment/music attorney in your area. I cant stress how many potential hidden proverbial bumps in the road could be present in the contract. The cost will pay itself off believe me. As well intentioned as people on public forums may be its a bad idea to seek any form of legal advice on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted April 21, 2006 Members Share Posted April 21, 2006 Originally posted by germanicus2112 Go see an entertainment/music attorney in your area. I cant stress how many potential hidden proverbial bumps in the road could be present in the contract. The cost will pay itself off believe me. As well intentioned as people on public forums may be its a bad idea to seek any form of legal advice on the internet. Indeed. You get what you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DanteRTS Posted April 21, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 21, 2006 Thanks for the thoughts. We do have an attorney working the deal (Just sent the check yesterday). I agree with everyone on the "standard" thing. EVERYTHING is negotiable. They can of course say NO, but there's no reason to not even visit the situation. I can see MTV now........ haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beachbum Posted April 21, 2006 Members Share Posted April 21, 2006 Good luck with it Dante, it's worth a shot. I seriously hope you get somewhere with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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