Members orangefunk Posted June 12, 2006 Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 Has anyone checked out Synful? http://www.synful.com The demo mp3s http://www.synful.com/User%20Demos.htm seem like it offer a modern day replacement for the Yamaha VL stuff. Seems expensive though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Awake77 Posted June 12, 2006 Members Share Posted June 12, 2006 it sure does sound sweet, but man, $500! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChetSinger Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 I've looked at it. It's an amazing piece of work. I don't know where it fits in. It's kind of like a VL replacement, but also kind of like a synthesized orchestral sample library. That Beethoven piece contained the best synthesized strings I've ever heard. I thought the trumpet was kind of lacking, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 i'm not sure i get it. i like the fact that the sound generation is based on additive principles, but they refer to it as not using notes, but phrases.the transition between notes goes through some kind of interpolation process (adjusting amplitude and pitch envelopes of partials maybe?).the process sounds a bit too much like working with looped material, but in the form of phrases.maybe i'm reading it wrong?: http://www.synful.com/RPM.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChetSinger Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 I think you've got the right idea. But instead of splicing and looping sounds, they're splicing and looping the envelopes of the partials, along with some kind of leftover residual noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bruto Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 I think you're close Mildbill. They're using sampled phrases and computer algorithms to splice one note to the next note in a sampled phrase. It can be looked at as loops with single note transitional blending. The demos sound nice, but I'm not sure if I'd ever use it. Still, I'll give them an A for originality. I'd be interesting to see the same technology applied to PCM sounds so that you could build seemless bass and rhythm guitar tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Analog Kid Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Very interesting. Given the price of the nicer Orchestral sampling sets, I wouldnt think they are asking too much at all. I like the concept- feed simple midi in and get sample articulation back.... one of the things i like about my V-Drums module. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted June 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 I'm gonna give this a try. I wonder if it will accept a breath controller...?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike Conway Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 I almost bought this (and I probably will). From what I've heard and studied, Synful is very cool. It impresses me that additive partials and a simple control scheme can sound so good. Back in this old thread, I posed the idea of a workstation using high end (Vienna, East/West, etc.) instrument section samples, along with Synful's solo instrument expressiveness. I think the combination of samples and Synful would be fantastic. Synful on a workstation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted June 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 I too think the combination of samples with some kind of resynthesis is the way to go. My favourite flugelhorn patch comes from the original Yamaha MOTIF... none of the VL sounds I've come across come anywhere near it... would love to hear how a combination of sampling and synthesis coould improve this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinHines Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by Mike Conway Back in this old thread, I posed the idea of a workstation using high end (Vienna, East/West, etc.) instrument section samples, along with Synful's solo instrument expressiveness. I think the combination of samples and Synful would be fantastic. There was a lot of interest in this product about a year ago over at some of the composer forums. The general consensus was:-- it can be helpful as a supplement to existing orchestral sample libraries-- the price is a little too high for the limited number of instruments available. You can download a PC or Mac demo version and test it out yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rpieket Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 IIRC Synful is not primarily a performance instrument (whereas the Yamaha VL very much is) It really comes into its own if you give it a midi FILE, rather than real time data. It will use look-ahead in order to generate appropriate phrasing. When used in real time, you must either disable the look-ahead system, and the sophisticated phrasing, or you must work with a one second delay. Note: this has nothing to do with normal soft-synth lag, and does not go away with a faster computer. It needs the delay so it knows which note is coming next, and can pick an appropriate way to connect the previous. So no, it is not a replacement for the VL. The VL is a performance instrument. Synful is a non-real-time scoring aid. -Ron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted June 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by rpieket IIRC Synful is not primarily a performance instrument (whereas the Yamaha VL very much is) It really comes into its own if you give it a midi FILE, rather than real time data. It will use look-ahead in order to generate appropriate phrasing. When used in real time, you must either disable the look-ahead system, and the sophisticated phrasing, or you must work with a one second delay. Note: this has nothing to do with normal soft-synth lag, and does not go away with a faster computer. It needs the delay so it knows which note is coming next, and can pick an appropriate way to connect the previous. So no, it is not a replacement for the VL. The VL is a performance instrument. Synful is a non-real-time scoring aid. -Ron. Thanks Ron. I was really thinking about getting hold of this and selling the VL, but now you just made my mind up for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Originally posted by orangefunk Has anyone checked out Synful?http://www.synful.comThe demo mp3s http://www.synful.com/User%20Demos.htm seem like it offer a modern day replacement for the Yamaha VL stuff.Seems expensive though... I've got it, it's amazing. Synful is the best orch software i've tried. You can play and record real time or for more expression there is a slight delay. If you want something to replace your VL though, try AAS string studio, it sounds far more VL authentic, screaming guitars, bright acoustic bass, even does unique synth sounds including pads. Try the demo http://www.applied-acoustics.com/stringstudio.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike Conway Posted August 3, 2006 Members Share Posted August 3, 2006 Originally posted by Plastic Baby Synful is the best orch software i've tried. You can play and record real time or for more expression there is a slight delay.http://www.applied-acoustics.com/stringstudio.htm So the real time results are still pretty good? Rpieket's one second delay comment kind of put me off. I checked out the MP3s for this, more than a year ago. I was astounded! Again, good for lead instruments. Use samples for sectionals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danatkorg Posted August 3, 2006 Members Share Posted August 3, 2006 Re playing in real-time: at NAMM in January, the developer was doing much of the demo by playing live on a keyboard. It sounded pretty impressive. - Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Originally posted by Mike Conway So the real time results are still pretty good? Rpieket's one second delay comment kind of put me off. I checked out the MP3s for this, more than a year ago. I was astounded! Again, good for lead instruments. Use samples for sectionals. Real time playing is just like any softsynth. There is a feature that needs a second to calculate the most realistic sound characteristics of a real orchestra, bending of notes and things like that, but you don't have to use it, the sounds are amazing just playing it like a normal softsynth. This software has impressed me so much i'm building a system around it. I've only had it 24 hours but i already know the possibilities. Expect some experimental demos from me in a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillyWa Posted August 3, 2006 Members Share Posted August 3, 2006 A little off the side question. How does the Yamaha VL plg card compare to these other synths? Or the VL-70m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Originally posted by BillyWa A little off the side question. How does the Yamaha VL plg card compare to these other synths? Or the VL-70m? I'm not sure why Orangefunk compared Synful Orch and the VL, like i said earlier, i'd recommend AAS String software for that. The VL synths do sound fantastic, you really need to try one to understand how special those synths are. The VL Plug is similar to the VL70m in that they don't sound as full as the keyboard versions. The keyboard versions have stunning fx and a few extra features that make all the difference. I really do recommend VL owners to check out the AAS String software, you'd think it was all Yamaha making the sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillyWa Posted August 3, 2006 Members Share Posted August 3, 2006 Thanks PB! I have the VL plg and was wondering if the other synths actually sounded better or fuller because I do not really like the sound of the card - at least through the S-30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted August 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted August 3, 2006 The lower end VLs sound a bit like 12 bit samples v 16 bits. Only the VL1, VL1m and VL7 sound full... funnily enough I think the VL engine in the EX5 combined with the AWM made for some nice flugelhorn patches that the VL1 and Co. can't do... this lead to my conviction that perhaps a combination of the two techniques might be a good way to go... i.e. samples for realistic tone, synthesis for the expressiveness... PB. I compared the VL with Synful because both try to model real instruments... having played the demo of Synful via an EMU XBoard 49 it seems that the sounds are a bit thinner and it may require a lot of learning in terms of the actual instrument and its characteristics, new keyboard technique, wheels and pedals, mappings and so on... just like the VL in fact... Its an interesting area, no one has quite cracked it yet I don't think.. certainly for the live player there is a bit of a gap in immediacy. Although the demos are pretty cool at the site, I suspect that they are the result of extensive post editing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Originally posted by orangefunk Its an interesting area, no one has quite cracked it yet I don't think.. certainly for the live player there is a bit of a gap in immediacy. Although the demos are pretty cool at the site, I suspect that they are the result of extensive post editing... I agree, it's an interesting area of synthesis, interests me far more than virtual analog. Have you tried AAS String? in my opinion it's as close to a VL7 in software as you're going to get, there are programming differences but i've recreated many of my favourite VL7 sounds. The presets only hint at what's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted August 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted August 4, 2006 Originally posted by Plastic Baby I agree, it's an interesting area of synthesis, interests me far more than virtual analog. Have you tried AAS String? in my opinion it's as close to a VL7 in software as you're going to get, there are programming differences but i've recreated many of my favourite VL7 sounds. The presets only hint at what's possible. Not yet, I will do though when I have more time. I never used the VL stuff for strings at all, I'm more into horns and saxes.... the Saxlab stuff didn't get me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Originally posted by orangefunk Not yet, I will do though when I have more time. I never used the VL stuff for strings at all, I'm more into horns and saxes.... the Saxlab stuff didn't get me.... Don't let the name "AAS string" fool you, not meant to be orch strings, it's more for guitars and harps, things like that and like VL it has that high sparkle clear bright VL character, i only got it a few days ago but the screaming guitars, synth bass and plucked harps remind me of the VL, in many ways i think it sounds better than the VL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Henway_piano Posted August 4, 2006 Members Share Posted August 4, 2006 IMHO, the musician validates the sound, the style, and ultimately the instrument. Not the reverse.... I've heard phenominal musicians take a patch and an instrument that I thought was useless, and made absolute gold out of it, leaving me wide eyed and mouth agape to wonder http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1321091 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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