Live Sequencing Ethics

In the past, I have played bass and vocals in three piece guitar/bass/drum bands that utilized sequencers ( actually, I had run the sequences to mini-disk and, later, iPod) and I had programmed all the keys, horns, 303 lines, etc...The usual stereo-left drummer click/stereo right premix to mixing board. This always gave us an edge over most of the CCR/Stones/Change In My Pocket Going Brown Eyed Girl bands...I never had an ethics issue because we were, for the most part, filling the gaps of the live sound .... I am currently playing keys in another band that employs sequencing (not as much) and is done the same way... I have another band started in which all the rhythm tracks are programmed. I have been currently splitting the chores between an MC-303, a Korg Electribe, and a Boss DR-3. The new band is doing all electronica/techno/ industrial music covers. Some of the songs I have sampled parts directly off the CDs into the Electribe.....Im thinking that utilizing the iPod would still be easier but most of the music itself is programmed. So here is my quandry: Where is the line drawn between being a live band, a "live" DJ, or being a glorified karaoke machine? I kind of find it hard to perform an electronica band live without some degree of programming

Comments?

Tampa? Do you know Chas3000? :poke:

No..Im actually almost two hours North of Tampa...Sorry.....

If you have an interest in the life aquatic, you might consider spending time together ... He's from Tampa, but apparently doesn't like to drive as much because of the higher price of gasoline. Maybe you could pick him up>?

Good luck on your quest for knowledge ... it never ends!

Sorry this was pretty random ... :poke:

Diametro, answer this man's question or stop {censored}ting up the thread, not everyone appreciates the insider humor

Personally, I'm like this: if anyone has issues with me performing in a certain way (for instance, using a laptop) and they make this known on beforehand, they may talk to the nice bald 300 lb. guy at the entrance who looks like he walked repeatedly into a wall and get themselves the fine way out .

I would try to replay or reverse-engineer as much as possible; directly sampling in the Electribe (unless you're doing a remix/alternative version of sorts) I'd try to replace; replay the synth lines and try to find alternatives or "soundalikes" for the samples. While it may not make a difference and the rest may not care at all (and they'd probably be right), I think that's still a matter of pride; then at least nobody'd be able to say that I wasn't doing anything myself .

Karaoke machines are a rather well defined extreme: you replay the song as blandly imitated as possible without the vocals and don't do anything out of the ordinary.

DJs spin the records. There's lots of room to innovate there, too - but it's generally not used.

I would try to replay or reverse-engineer as much as possible; directly sampling in the Electribe (unless you're doing a remix/alternative version of sorts) I'd try to replace; replay the synth lines and try to find alternatives or "soundalikes" for the samples. While it may not make a difference and the rest may not care at all (and they'd probably be right), I think that's still a matter of pride; then at least nobody'd be able to say that I wasn't doing anything myself .

The songs are split into 2 different modes depending on which tune we are doing: Certain songs are done in a "Song" mode: EXAMPLE I have ABCs "Be Near Me" drum tracks programmed in the DR 3, Im playing all the keyboard parts that I can (and singing), and the guit/bassist/secondary keys/other vox guy is playing bass ( We have a pads drummer that plays percussion and does all the fills). These are fine and come out fine -they sound like a band doing an ambitious cover and the arrangements are always the same. Other songs are done in a "Loop Mode" : EXAMPLE: We do both Front 242s "Headhunter" and "Til Death Us Do Part" - both are recreated in the MC-303 in which I am playing keyboards with one hand and muting/unmuting sections with the other. This enables us to 'stretch' the song out if need be and lets us get creative and do different arrangements each time we play them. The problem Im getting to is "Mindphaser" by Frontline Assembly in which I have whole phrases of the song sampled and we all play extra parts on top. While I am happy with my "sound callage" sequence that I did, it is painfully like a karaoke track.....this is why I wrote this thread.........

Where you play in tampa? SE tampa myself

I have to agree with Yoozer though on the topic of samples vs sequenced though; I think looking for midi files of the songs you want to cover and then using them as a starting point for the percussion, synth lines ect ect. is a better option. It will also allow you to break the song into tracks that you can choose to use, find new sounds or leave out parts. The fact that you can do this will lead to a better performance IMO. For example you're going to do never trust a junkie by ministry.. you can easily get the samples used in the intro online, mix that up into your own drum sequence and play guitars live on top of that. All Al did on the song was sample guitars, drums and loop and layer anyway.. so if you sample that from the song and do the same live, I'm going to sit here and think, gee.. why don't I 1. just play the CD or 2. pay to see ministry live?

If you use midi files, you can sequence loop, remix, extended your dance solo or whatever and still have it sound custom..

Blame it on Chas ... :poke: He's the dou-he that started this ... Sorry, Yooz ... but just remember you can't please everyone all the time ... c'est la vie ...

I just read your OT Thread. Im not sure if you were referring to me or not so let me give you a little info on me to assure you Im not this Chas person........

--My name is Tony, not Chas.......

--I play music fulltime as a job. I am mainly a bass player although lately I have been gigging as a keyboard player

--I live in a town called Ocala

--I have an extensive knowledge of MIDI, digital editing, and synthesis because I have been doing it since the 80s. I was signed to both Cleopatra Records and Fifth Column Records in the early 90s. With all my knowledge and history, you will be surprised to learn that Im not a gear head and dont go all googly over equipment.... I have decent keyboards, but I also have no problem performing live with cheap home keyboards with speakers on them as part of my rig or as my rig .......

--I dont post much in the keyboard forum but I like lurking here from time to time. The last thread I started here dealt with playing home keyboards onstage.

--Visit my MySpace link in my sig to see if Im the Chas person that you may think I am

--Please note my HOF status and 5000+ posts to show I am not a first time poster

--edit: Also, check with the mods and ppl over at the Bass Forum which has been my hang out for nearly a year-and-a-half

With all that said, "Nice to meet you" :)

IWith all that said, "Nice to meet you" :)

Nice to meet you too.

I checked out your myspace page. Tight bass playing!

To answer the question - I think the market speaks for itself. If you get gigs with your act, and specifically repeat gigs, then you're doing something right. If you bomb then reevaluate.

Good advice . Thanks. I just wanted to know other peoples views to put my conscience at ease

I don't think there's an ethical issue involved. As long as you're performing in a venue that pays ASCAP, BMI, or whomever performance royalties, then you're fine.