Best place to buy a pre built system?

I have a terrible record of breaking {censored}, so rather then build my own DAW PC I was thinking I'd get a custom built one. Everything from major companies is over priced, including the high end stuff from RAIN recording.

So far it looks like cyberpower has good prices. Is there anywhere that's better?

Is the quadcore worth it? Should I go AMD or Intel?

Does your sequencer support it?

Magic 8-ball says Intel.

Companies that build excellent PCs that have been throughly tested to ensure all components work well together, and also provide excellent after-sale support WILL be expensive. You should probably build your own system.

Here are the companies I would investigate (you may have looked at all of these already):

http://www.visiondaw.com/productcart/pc/vdawIndex07.asp

http://www.pcaudiolabs.com/

http://www.sonicalabs.com/

http://www.sweetwater.com/creation_station/index.php

http://www.adkproaudio.com/

I personally wouldn't buy a system from Cyberpower since their systems appear to be totally geared toward gaming.

How do those systems differ from typical dell/hp/compaq off the shelf systems?

Is it just a matter of optimizing them, by turning off stuff. Or are there actual different hardware components that function better (such as hard drives/memory and so on)? Or maybe it's a matter of including certain software?

Anyone think they're worth the extra cost?

With any system builder (when compared to building your own PC) you will hopefully have a product that has had all of various components thoroughly tested together. The computer will just work.

There is nothing wrong with computers from the mainstream manufacturers (like Dell) except:

-- they many times will use cheaper components

-- they come preloaded with software that may reduce system performance

I have a friend who performed all kinds of research about building a custom PC. He posted on tons of music forums, determined his list of components, then had "a guy" buy all of the parts and build it for him. The system was correctly built, but unfortunately my friend had problems immediately with various software not working correctly. He spent six months trying to figure out what was wrong, finally determining that there was some incompatibility between some RAID controller and his motherboard (or something like that).

I have had good luck with my Dell Dimension "off the shelf" computer but my next computer will be devoted to music only built by one of the music PC companies. I have run into problems by trying to add stuff to my computer (e.g. external hard drives that fail, PCI boards to provide USB 2.0 and Firewire ports). The lesson I have learned is to try to minimize the number of "add on" items. Want more drive space? Get a PC that is built to support 4 internal hard drives.

Realistically, I think musicians who use computers should budget for replacing their music computer every three years.

There are different hardware components that will function better. The question is whether or not you have the time to research the components and all the associated technobabble that goes with it.

For {censored}s and giggles, I priced out what I thought was comparable to a similar configured ADK Pro Audio system (which looks pretty spiffy to me):

4U rackmount case - $220

Thermaltake 550W power supply - $90

Slightly higher spec Penryn P35 Motherboard - $260

Intel E6850 - $290

Comparable quiet fans - $20 (though I think there are better on the market here)

Supertalent 1GB-CL4 128x64 x2 - $60

Seagate 160G 8meg 7200rpm - $83

Seagate 500G 32meg 7200rpm - $130

XFX 8400GS - $45

Windows XP Home edition - $85

TOTAL, RAW PARTS: $1283

ADK PRO AUDIO TOTAL: $1728

Now, obviously, you can save some pretty nice moolah DIY. Except:

(*) You have to research the parts and know what goes together best.

(*) You have to assemble the computer yourself.

(*) You have to install the OS yourself. And for DAWs its best to optimize the performance. You can find information about this on the web, but still...

ADK also offers some further nice custom options like audio-acoustic treatment and preinstalled music software. I'm sure the others have similar programs.

I honestly wouldn't use a mass market computer manufacturer like Dell for music making, if I could help it. Too many possible cheap parts, and they aren't going to tell you what is what half the time. I have a cheapie laptop from Dell for instance, good for Internet surfing but that 4200RPM drive would just suck for anything DAW related. Dell's probably going to charge a similar price to what ADK charges, if the parts were actually similar.

They're not afraid to tell you what's in there which may make a big difference. Also, off-the-shelf systems don't expect you to buy DSP PCI cards or something, so they take the smallest motherboard and cram a 56k modem in it using some proprietary connector. I've seen motherboards that are just missing the AGP or PCI-e slots since those things were meant for the office; good luck getting a decent dualhead setup out of that.

The old trick about magicking some services in Windows away using arcane lists - well, even if you had minimum wage, you'd still be off cheaper just buying more or faster components.

No. But I can build PCs myself, and if it gets too complicated (usually the mass of little plugs for power, pc speaker etc., but that's more laziness than anything else), I have my brother to call on.

There are different hardware components that will function better. The question is whether or not you have the time to research the components and all the associated technobabble that goes with it. For {censored}s and giggles, I priced out what I thought was comparable to a similar configured ADK Pro Audio system (which looks pretty spiffy to me): 4U rackmount case - $220 Thermaltake 550W power supply - $90 Slightly higher spec Penryn P35 Motherboard - $260 Intel E6850 - $290 Comparable quiet fans - $20 (though I think there are better on the market here) Supertalent 1GB-CL4 128x64 x2 - $60 Seagate 160G 8meg 7200rpm - $83 Seagate 500G 32meg 7200rpm - $130 XFX 8400GS - $45 Windows XP Home edition - $85 TOTAL, RAW PARTS: $1283 ADK PRO AUDIO TOTAL: $1728 Now, obviously, you can save some pretty nice moolah DIY. Except: (*) You have to research the parts and know what goes together best. (*) You have to assemble the computer yourself. (*) You have to install the OS yourself. And for DAWs its best to optimize the performance. You can find information about this on the web, but still... ADK also offers some further nice custom options like audio-acoustic treatment and preinstalled music software. I'm sure the others have similar programs. I honestly wouldn't use a mass market computer manufacturer like Dell for music making, if I could help it. Too many possible cheap parts, and they aren't going to tell you what is what half the time. I have a cheapie laptop from Dell for instance, good for Internet surfing but that 4200RPM drive would just suck for anything DAW related. Dell's probably going to charge a similar price to what ADK charges, if the parts were actually similar.

Not a bad setup, but I would change a couple of things. I would switch to a Q6600 for the CPU, as it's about the same price. Lower speed per core, but most decent Audio packages these days will make use of the extra cores quite well.

I would get a minimum of 2GB, and use Corsair modules. (high reliability, and they are able to work above spec in OCing and gaming situations, so they're very stable under stock conditions which is what you'd want here)

I'd use an Antec power supply. There are fancier ones, but they are fairly reasonable cost-wise, and they have some very quiet solutions in their lineup.

Nice choices on everything else. I have a P-35 board in my audio system, and it's great. (I use a 680i board in my gaming system, which is also rock solid, but I'd lean toward the P-35 for this application.) Definitely go with the Seagate drives as mentioned. Nothing is more quiet or reliable, and they have a 5 year RMA policy.

It really does make sense to buy parts and build. It's not as difficult, or delicate a process as many people think. Just use common sense, do it at a table, ground yourself if you're paranoid (but not totally necessary if you're careful.) You'll pay a huge premium for a pre-built audio oriented computer. They aren't doing anything that you wouldn't be on your own either. The only advantage is support.

I heard alienware was good a WHILE back, since then they have been bought up by Dell.

maybe they might be a good route?

Q6600 is the best bang for your buck at the moment (especially if you know how to overclock.)

SSHHHH!!! (most people are afraid of that word around here)

I actually do OC my audio system, just not as much as I do on my game system. It completely depends on what your components are. You can hand pick a good stepping for a CPU, and it will run flawlessly. I think what puts people off is how much it varies, and how much work it can be to get a stable and tested setup.

If you're a musician, and not a musician/computer enthusiast, then you just want your system to work forever with minimum tweaking, and without having to think about how much voltage is going to your CPU, RAM, whether you need to relax your memory timings, etc. I for one, am the latter, and enjoy tweaking everything. However, I also am a hobbyist music-wise, so if I was to fry a component, I'm not going to lose out on a contract or gig because I couldn't finish writing a tune for someone/something. Never had that happen, but I believe that's what goes through the mind of someone that isn't into the computer side of things just for the fun of it.

Do you have any resources on building your own PC? I have thought about that idea before, but I would have no clue where to start. Don't you need special tools? I have a hammer and some screwdrivers but I assume more delicate tools are needed.

Nope. You need patience and the booklet that came with the motherboard. It helps if you have something better than a cheap case; enough room, no sharp edges and thumbscrews.

Nope. Just get the right screwdrivers; ideally you only need two. One for the bigger screws that hold the PCI cards in place (also used for the motherboard), one for the smaller ones that hold the harddrive in place. Both need screwdrivers with blunt tips.

The order is basically this:

- build the case (if necessary, some models are folded up, but these are cheaper generally speaking)

- put in the powersupply*

- put the CPU on the motherboard (careful, tricky)

- put the cooler on the CPU (careful, even more tricky, don't forget cooling paste)

- put the motherboard in the case*

- put the RAM in the motherboard

- put the harddisks in the case+ (make sure master/slave settings are set correctly if working with IDE)

- put the CD-rom in the case+ (make sure master/slave settings are set correctly if working with IDE)

- put in the PCI (AGP, PCI-e, PCI) cards*

- put in any casefans if required*

- connect the cables

- switch on and see what you did right or wrong. It usually will start to beep frantically if you've done something wrong, but don't worry; it might be that you forgot to connect a harddisk or something.

- set the BIOS clock and settings (boot order, mainly) right

* means big screwdriver, + means small one

There's probably a few visual guides too; like here: http://www.mysuperpc.com/build/pc_parts_list.shtml

Do keep in mind that they go out of date fast thanks to the pace of technology.

Not anything well documented. I've just been doing it so long, that picking parts comes naturally. I would say the forums at http://www.hardocp.com would be one of the better resources. Of course, it's an internet forum, so there will be a bunch of friendly people that want to help, and there will be twice as many idiots that think they're above it (and that it would be more fun to act stupid.) I'm always happy to answer questions as well.

The best thing to do is read up on reviews of each part. Where intuition comes in is combining them to make a good overall system. You just get the hang of it after a while. It's a little less difficult building a nice stable (stock clock) audio system than it is trying to build a highly overclocked and tuned gaming system.

Picking stable parts is easier than picking parts with the headroom necessary for tweaking.

All you really need to do it tools-wise is a philips screwdriver (paranoids will say non-magnetic, but the benefit of being able to pick up a screw that fell between a couple of capacitors or somesuch far outweighs any perceived magnetic dangers.

If you want to do some nice cable-management, you'll want some cutters to clip wire-ties. Otherwise you really don't need much.

It's good to read reviews and posts that aren't completely biased toward one brand or the other (like Nvidia/ATI or Intel/AMD.) I pick parts based on what works best at the time per application. I do have my favorites, but they aren't always the best option. Check out the people that agree that one brand is great, but the other is ahead at the time. They usually make more sense, and are better informed.

Buy parts from places like Newegg or ZipZoomFly. They have good prices, ship quickly, and have decent policies. There are a few places that sell cheaper if you look on the price-tracker sites, but get things from trusted sources.

I agree completely on the case. Lian-Li makes great aluminum cases with nice edges, lots of room, excellent and quiet cooling, etc. They cost a little more, but look better, weigh less, and are great in all the practical areas as well.

On the screwdriver thing: If you have a decent No. 2 Philips, with the blunt end mentioned above, you can use it on all of the screw types. (the 6/32 case screws, and the 440/M3 type as well)

Currently for an audio PC, I'd be looking at:

Motherboards from ASUS and Abit with an Intel P35 chipset. (Firewire is a good option to get onboard)

CPUs from Intel (Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quad (the Extreme ones are overpriced for very little extra performance. (AMDs are great too, less money, but currently don't compete performance-wise.)))

Video Cards from either ATI or Nvidia (both have great cards right now for all ranges and applications (if there will be no gaming done, get a lower end one with passive cooling as it will be much quieter))

Hard Drives from Seagate (for reasons I mentioned above) 7200.10 and 7200.11 series are great. (fast, quiet, and reliable)

Power Supplies from Antec, Corsair, Enermax in the 500W range(very important for stability)

Memory (DDR2-800+) from Corsair, Crucial, G.Skill, OCZ, Kingston, Geil (DDR3 is out, but is ridiculous price-wise for now)

Cases from Lian Li, Antec, CoolerMaster (though I'd lean toward the first two)

There are of course plenty of other options and opinions, but these have all served me quite well over the years. The CPU and motherboard chipset are the most volatile in which brand delivers the best performance, thermal specs, power use, etc. The other parts are fairly consistent.

Thanks. I think that if I decide to try to build my own computer, I should start with something cheap for home use (just in case I ruin it).

J3RK knows what he's talking about. You hang out at hardforum or anandtech as well?

When I assembled my current rig it was suddenly a bit tricky again. Don't let the Socket XXX and whatever drive you nuts. Pick Intel or AMD (and right now Intel's doing pretty great), pick a motherboard (I've got a P35 but the P38 is current now), pick memory (brand stuff) and basically you're done because the rest falls into place or doesn't matter.

As for cheaper parts, that's where I'd choose for the AMD route.

Passive graphics card is a good one too. Take either big fans that spin slowly or a heatsink - and graphics cards are of such a size that you usually have a fast small fan which wears out faster and starts to sound like a mosquito.

http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/guide-200711.ars - Ars Technica has guides from time to time which make selecting parts easier.

I mostly hang out in the PC Gaming section of HardForum, but occasionally hop into the Video Card and CPU sections. I read Anandtech and Tom's even sometimes, but don't hang out in their forums. I mostly go to those ones just for the "other perspective" on things. HardOCP seems to be the real-world/down to earth perspective on things, which I appreciate, but I like to see what the others have to say to gain a bit more perspective, (as they usually vary quite a bit.)

Gamer PCs, Core 2 Duo/Quads, Alienware... completely unoptimized for audio workstations. Gimme more...lotsa cores, RAM, I/O, and storage. And a cheap ass built-in graphics card no gamer in his right mind would own.

Anybody wanna a real server, perfect for DAW and synthesis? Here you go:

http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/2U/8025/SYS-8025C-3RB.cfm

Supports 4 Quad Core Xeons and 192G RAM.

Only about $2,500 for the bare bones. These barebone systems are basically ready to go, just add CPUs, RAM, and SATA drives.

I think 16 cores would keep me happy for a while. Even a dual Quad Core XEON 51xx system can be had for under $3000 loaded and ready to go. I can vouch for Supermicro's quality.

I understand this, which is why I have 6 PCs. The living-room HD media PC, two high-end gaming PCs, the bedroom studio/media PC, the studio proper PC, and my son's game PC. There are good in-between solutions though. My audio PC can play Crysis. yet still has tons of IO, is rock solid, has plenty of cores and memory, but has a nice vid card. I don't have many games on it, but I have a couple for when I want to take a break, and it does both tasks spectacularly.

However, I still have to maintain that I'm a musical hobbyist. If my music was "mission-critical" the video card would be gone, and there would be no games on it.

There's a company called Woot based out of Tampa, FL that I've been hearing good things about. Their prices are very reasonable, with both AMD and Intel dual core systems to choose from. They're on Ebay as well, if you search for Woot.

If your DAW is dual platform, though, IMO you really should consider going Mac. There's some good deals out there on Imac Dual Cores, and the Macworld Expo is coming Jan 15th, so there might be even better deals after that.

http://www.wootcomputers.com/daw/recordingcomputer.html

yeah, Woot looks pretty good. Better prices the Rain Records daws it seems.

Now a related question, stick with windows xp, or switch to linux?

Oh and also, what's a solid sound card? Don't need anything fancy. Probably won't be running more then two mics at a time.

I just wish i could find something like a groove tubes brick in with dual channels.