Members bruto Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 Anyone ever question design or engineering aspects of an otherwise great synth? Obviously design and production costs drive a lot of decisions, as does marketing and current trends. Also early midi gear had a trail and error phase that lasted a few years. Still, minor shortcomings often prevent some synths from becoming the great one. On the positive side, if you can work around the peculiarities, many are still affordable. I'll use my latest addition as an example: Roland MKS-30: Excellent synth, but well known (along with the JX-3P) for it's shrill, metallic highs that resonate from almost every patch. Roland was going for buzz, and that's just what they got. Still, unwanted highs can be filtered with a mixer or a low-pass filter. Other odd bits of the MKS-30 are: No midi out. No way to save patches on a computer.No multi-trigger mode in EG - really weird on a polyphonic synth.No unison mode - twelve oscillators on one note would have made this a monster lead synth. Even cooler would be 6+6 where one bank could detune or transpose against the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinP268 Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 Yamaha DX7, a lovely synth as it is, the performance parametres like portamento, modulations, aftertouch, etc. are adjusted globally and independently from specific patches. This was sorted out later in the DX7II and thoughtful pre-programming of these settings mostly mitigates the problem in the original DX7 too but it's still a big weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members idiotboy Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 Roland TB-303: Sounds nothing like a bass guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 It's easy as time goes by to lose sight of why certain synths were designed the way they were. The MKS-30 was one of Roland's first modules. The lack of MIDI OUT was no big deal since the engine doesn't support sys-ex anyway. At the time, a personal computer was an investment of over $1000 and it was more of a problem if a synth couldn't save patches to tape! Nowadays we're used to seeing instruments that support MIDI over a USB port but have no MIDI connectors The DX7 global performance settings does make some sense, that way you always get the same response from the controllers no matter which patch you call up. Remember it is a monotimbral machine and most people played it live at first since MIDI sequencing wasn't as ubiquitous as today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 So this is mostly a gripe thread? Cool. Chroma Polaris: - You cannot adjust the mix of the two oscillators.- No unison mode, and you only get mono mode if you enable portamento, and even then it's only active when the sustain pedal is down.- There is no adjustment of velocity sensitivity.- There are only 8 levels of resonance. Poly Evolver:- Those blue LEDs are blindingly bright.- You can't tell what the value is for a parameter without carefully bumping the related knob to see it on the LCD.- Scrolling through the mod source/destinations to find what you want is an exercise in patience. Virus TI:- There is nothing wrong with this synth. Juno 106:- Uses proprietary chips that tend to die. Remote SL:- The bezel around the LCD is too narrow, and clips off the bottom portion of the characters when viewed from a seated position.- The pads are hard as rocks, not fun to play.- The buttons are cheap and spongy feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SoundwaveLove Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 Roland TB-303: Sounds nothing like a bass guitar. I'm still upset about that, and I'm waiting for roland to come out with a proper 303 that isn't totally useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 Chroma Polaris: - You cannot adjust the mix of the two oscillators.- No unison mode, and you only get mono mode if you enable portamento, and even then it's only active when the sustain pedal is down.- There is no adjustment of velocity sensitivity.- There are only 8 levels of resonance. OMG, those are some seriously F*cked up design decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 Indeed. And yet, I keep the ol' girl around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bruto Posted April 25, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 Roland TB-303: Sounds nothing like a bass guitar. As comical as that sounds now, it was a common complaint when it was marketed in the 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 The technology that was available at the time has a lot to do with it too. I don't like using scsi, but I've got a few pieces that have to use it. Smart media cards - I don't mind them, but they're obsolete. I've got pieces that use SM cards too. ...Virus TI: - There is nothing wrong with this synth. ... Ya - it's hard to find fault with it. I feel that way about the A6 and Q too. I like how it sounds, and there's only a couple things I'd like to see added, but somehow, I don't like programming the the TI as much as some other stuff I've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Acid Hazard Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 DSI Evolver Desktop - No portamento when using the on board sequencer. Serious bummer =o[ And those damn detented knobs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 I hated the display on the NL2, and I suppose the desktop evolver would probably be just as bad - as well as the novation single space rack stuff. I guess I just don't get along with uninformative displays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bruto Posted April 25, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 It's easy as time goes by to lose sight of why certain synths were designed the way they were.The MKS-30 was one of Roland's first modules. The lack of MIDI OUT was no big deal since the engine doesn't support sys-ex anyway. At the time, a personal computer was an investment of over $1000 and it was more of a problem if a synth couldn't save patches to tape! Yea, I know. Roland could never have guessed that 20 years later, everyone would have a computer. (Also I think personal computers were more like $2000 in 1984.) And Roland did make improvements on it over the JX-3P, doubled the patch memory, and added a memory cartridge slot that doubles it again. Still, the lack of a multi-mode trigger is really the biggest shortcoming of the MKS-30. Actually, I'm glad it's still under the radar. I paid $200 for mine a few weeks ago including a factory cartridge. The big league MKS-80 goes for stupid money these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 Virus TI: - There is nothing wrong with this synth. ... as long as you didn't buy it directly when it came out before all those USB troubles were ironed out . JX8P: no unison spread. No key transpose. No PWM (and yes, I know the sync trick). WRYYY. JX10: really really slow alpha dial, JX8P complaints list. TR-rack: even with the minimal buttons, it should've been made editable from the front panel. So what if I'm in the mood for masochism. Creamware Pro-12: why the HELL do you need a license key for the (free) software editor of a hardware box. DX7II - you knew damn well about the velocity-to-100 problem, why didn't you fix it? Any Yamaha with the combined rotary encoders/pushbuttons (A4000) - they really wanted those things to die as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 Doh, forgot to mention the 106's most glaring idosyncrasy: Worst. Unison Mode. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusks Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 Nord Modular (dunno if it's fixed on the G2). Pitch is routed to modules post pitch bend for convenience. Pitch bend information is not available as a mod source. Math can be used to isolate this information but involves subtracting one variable from another and has dead spots where the math just doesn't work. (Trust me.) In a synth with a gazillion degrees of flexibility why would they overlook this simple thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 Perhaps the term "idiotsyncratic" is more correct, then . Doh, forgot to mention the 106's most glaring idosyncrasy: Worst. Unison Mode. Ever. This was my first encounter with unison and it nearly ruined it. Good thing the Jupe 6 did it the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayvon Posted April 25, 2008 Members Share Posted April 25, 2008 JX8P: no unison spread. You can detune the unisoned 2nd voice if that's what you mean. I haven't used my JX-8P for ages but you use the master tune button somehow. Works in both unison modes IIRC but not the second mono mode where it'd be really useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 80zclubkid Posted April 26, 2008 Members Share Posted April 26, 2008 Roland XP-50 (no arp or ROM seq. groove pattern presets), but once it's set-up with my SMFs, via floppy, - this old synth sounds better than my other 30 + synths & groove modules...Also, the RPS is awesome! cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bruto Posted April 26, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 26, 2008 TR-rack: even with the minimal buttons, it should've been made editable from the front panel. So what if I'm in the mood for masochism. Right. I have one and mainly use it as a preset synth (and it's great for that.) It has layers of effects and modulations, but they're so damn complicated to set up, I just skip it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Awake77 Posted April 26, 2008 Members Share Posted April 26, 2008 Andromeda: Nothing. Ok - I wish those 'future' slots in the engine settings would get populated with awesome new features in an OS update, which will probably never happen. Z1 - Some physical models take up all the DSP power allowing you only 1osc (in single mode), FX are great but could be more powerful. AX-80 - No Portamento!!! DW-8000 - I love this synth for what it is, but if I had to complain, I wish I could load in my own waveforms. In the Angel City Turbo manual, it states that it would be a simple modification to make this happen, there's even an address of a company that was working on it - but obviously that never came to fruition. K5000S - Ive had this synth for 3 years, and I still dont know how to program it! That's my fault - the thing is a beast. Oh - wacky ass resonance with only 7 settings. X-Station 25 - wish the sliders had multiple banks like the knobs do. I used to think the on board VA was weak - but there's actually some pretty nice sounds in there, pads mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members enx Posted April 27, 2008 Members Share Posted April 27, 2008 Roland TB-303: Sounds nothing like a bass guitar. somehow I knew this would come up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted April 27, 2008 Members Share Posted April 27, 2008 Poly/EX-800: Only one filter for all voices. I'm sure this was a price point decision, but if it had had a filter per voice, I think it would have gained a bit more traction in popularity. Cue MetroSonus to "p-shaw!" my judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wetwareinterface Posted April 27, 2008 Members Share Posted April 27, 2008 k5000s the knobs on it are for real time changes only. you can't make changes using them then save those changes to a patch. and awake77 it does have more resonance variation than 7 settings. it's just that to change resonance you need to assign it a modifier to get subtlty rather than 7 harsh steps. other than those 2 items this is nearly a perfect synth. best key action, additive monster, 6 oscs per voice if you want, nice effects section, formant filters in the additive section and high and low pass filters after that if you want, etc... yamaha ex-5/7 bad midi response, can't properly support it's own features with enough onboard dsp horsepower, added dsp-fx synth instead of an fm synth section (rumoured to be 1 fm synth enabled ex-5 in the world painted gold or silver or some such crap made for stevie wonder), glacially slow load times over scsi for sample loading, etc... access virus a b and c horrible filter emulation that everyone seems to love, go figure. arp oddyssey, keys hang over the edge of the synth causing them to break all the time, crappy sliders with no dust sealers on them, first oddyssey model has no cv ports. ensoniq mirage a 2 digit screen that only displays hexadecimal notation, needs extra operating system to do any useful editing (masos mirage advanced sampling operating system). ensoniq esq-m, missing the sequencer but they give you an extra slot for multitimbrality (yeah i need 9 multitimbral patch slots on an 8 voice synth) yamaha dx-7 the most hideous synth ever made except for other yamaha fm keyboards, velocity only goes to 100, aftertouch on wrong midi cc, membrane switches, no proper manual on fm synthesis causing 98% of owners to just buy patches rather than program their own. korg oasys the price alesis andromeda only complaint is that it was made by alesis and that means you can expect that update ...? alesis micron a VA with only 4 knobs and no editor, and it was made by alesis so that software editor should be out ...? roland tb303 it sounds nothing like a bass nor does it work like a synth as far as making more than 2 noises, crappy simple sequencer = crappy simple patterns have been the norm for well over a decade now thanks to this being "THE" item to have if you're a serious producer of dance music... korg triton it appeals to all the wrong people (if i hear "hey man i can make some phatt beats with this" one more time at guitar center i'm gonna kill me a future hip hop producer ) red sound elevata and ensoniq fizmo hey lets make a decent synth, but lets put in a {censored} power supply that'll blow up after a little while and then get out of the synth business... novation supernova II let's make the best VA we can, we'll tweak it so that it can reproduce the sound of any classic synth you'd want. no we take it back here's a buggy scaled back version called the a-station/k-station/ks-42/ks-61/x-station/xiosynth/v-synth etc... we'll produce gazillions of the poor cousin but we won't make the big version at all anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members raffor Posted April 27, 2008 Members Share Posted April 27, 2008 I think the Xpander is high on the list with everything done right. At least almost everything is possible with that thing, not only in the programming but also in the controlling section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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