K2661 vs Fantom x7

Sort of hard to make up mind on this one, the price being equal (before add-ons). The benefits and drawbacks of both are obvious. Here is what I like:

Fantom: SRX cards - lots of available sounds. Screen & UI is nice! Lots of on-board storage. Sequencer, comparatively, looks much easier to handle. More keys.

K2661: VAST looks really, really neat. Sounds different* and, from what I can tell, interesting. Controllers galore. KB3 (although not all too hot I understand, but combined with the effects system and VAST... mmm, yeah).

*I have the feeling the K2661 can't do "realism" as well as the Fantom.

So, if anyone wants to supply some input, I'd appreciate ANY perspective.

I did the same question time ago

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?p=26386675#post26386675

and I bought the k2661... I just can tell you, in my opinion the k2661 is one of the best sounding synths in the market, I liked it more than the Fantom in terms of sound (I tried both in the store). The k2661 comes with a smart media with a LOT of sounds of the old models (k2500, k2600, etc). The VAST is great, it is not that hard to understand as most of people says IMO, and you have almost everything there with good quality.

so I recommend strongly the k2661

I love Roland products, but I give the nod to the Kurzweil. I only have a K-2000 (The k-2261s grandpa) but I can attest to the sound and capability of these machines is incredible.

I prefer the Fantom X7. Better keys.

Sounds? Kurzweil hands down for electric keys.

Piano is a toss up - like both.

I prefer Roland strings and brass.

I had a K2600 a while back (same engine as K2661 and similar controller features) and thought it was flat-out amazing as a controller (very comprehensive), and its sound was unparalleled ("realism" galore IMHO)! However, I never really got to grips with VAST other than basic tweaking because the UI wasn't the easiest for programming. It wasn't hard to program really, just fiddly and time-consuming with lots of menu diving.

Since it wasn't fun or intuitive for me to program, I let it go...I still miss some of those beautiful sounds though.

I'm tempted to get a PC2R every now and then because of it.

I haven't tried the K2661, but I have a K2500XS that I think feels and sounds great. It doesn't have some of the niceties of newer boards, but I'm not missing them. The K2661 is a very cool extension of the line.

For "ease of proramming" VAST, try the VAST Programmer. Lots of things are still needlessly complex, but at least you can have it all right there in front of you instead of sifting through the little screen on the keyboard.

There is another option - The Kurzweil PC3. It doesn't have a sampler, but it contains the next version of VAST called Dynamic VAST, 128 note poly. 76 keys and VA-1 virtual analog oscillators.

Kurzweil is king of sound quality. In the past their boards have been geared more towards bread and butter sounds which are exceptional. The PC3 is trying to expand upon that by targeting the synth side a bit more.

Recently I was on the sonik matter website and one of the most requested type of sound people were asking for are guitars. "Guitars"? Now why on earth would you want to play guitar on one of the most powerful synthesizer archetectures ever developed is beyond me?

Go buy a strat learn to play guitar for god sakes! phooey!

I bought both new a few years ago & must say that you can't go wrong with either one. I ended up selling my X7 a few months ago because I was mainly using the board as a controller keyboard & figure I could just get the Fantom XR if I miss some of the sounds (which I do).

The X7 not only has more keys, but also has a better feeling (more playable) keyboard IMO. I also like Rolands pitch/mod lever more than pitch/mod wheels. I sold it because I have a Roland A-70 which has basically the same keys for a controller keyboard etc.

Soundwise they are very different from one another & accually complement each other rather than compete. If computer intigration is important to you, you may want to spluge for the newer Roland G7... just a thought. The sequencers are very good on both keyboards.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Hmm, tough call. A lot of people seem to like the Fantom keybed - I thought it was really light-feeling. If the K2661 is worse, then, hoo-boy.

The K2661 uses a Fatar synth action keybed. This is simular to Alesis QS6, QS7, Andromedia, Korg TR line.

Roland has alway developed their own but is closer to Yamahas excellent FS keybed (DX7, Motif 6, 7, and Korg Tritions, Korg Z1).

I personally like light, fast and snappy keybeds - FS. They are generally regarded a better keybed as well. Thus the reason why the Tritons have FS and the TR has Fatar- they are cheaper.

The fatar has a bit more resistance, stiffer, and slower though has excellent aftertouch. I just get fatigued faster on Fatar keybeds and feel a bit held back where I can play longer on an FS without fatigue.

I have no idea what the action is like on the PC3 but I dying to play one. I know it's a waterfall semi-weighted design.

The Fantom keybed is excellent. I just always prefered the wave rom in the XV line more. Why on earth Roland didnt include them with the Fantoms or simply put the XV waves on a dedicated SRX card is beyond me.

With the out-of-the-gate failure

I did too - and it bugged me no end playing live piano with it. Difficult to reconcile the light touch with the rich piano sounds. (I really liked So True.)

I LOooooVE playing "piano" on the X7 ... Then again, I have somewhat of a light touch ... I'm definitely not a "banger" player ...

PC3 is amazing:thu:

Signal not hot enough, but the sounds are so good you dream ideas....

I am a Roland guy, love the attack the programmers try for....

Have some Yamaha, swishy wash and all.......

All Korgs I have owned SCREEEEECH on high end....

My KURZ sounds so incredible in stereo I need no other axe, but I always fall back to Roland live.

I am certain either would thrill you and inspire you to practice and write.

Keep us posted. Richard

Would this be the same keybed as the Alesis Fusion 6HD and the PEK, too? If so, I like that keybed quite a bit.

I'm not either. I like Roland keybeds, don't get me wrong, just the comparisons I have seen (which are consistent with the post above) all seem to suggest the K2661 has an inferior keybed. At the retail price and the Kurz rep, it would seem an odd choice to put a crappy keybed on one of their showcase products.

Also, FWIW, the Fantom engine is no slouch! I've been running through the manuals and, being used to Roland equipment, I like a lot of the things that you can do in that engine - for example I didn't realize they had added a genuine 4x4 mod matrix in addition to the dual LFOs. Pretty sweet, in fact the PEK engine is set up very similarly to the Fantom engine. I could program the Fantom in my sleep.

Can the Fantom LFOs hit audio rates?

Get a PC3. Now. Great keybed. Awesome sounds. Get it. No delay. Now.

Yes, The Fusion 6HD has the Fatar Keybed. Aside from feel, a dead visual give away of the 2 kinds of keybeds are:

The FS have a small drop down notch at the back of the white keys, before it passes through the keyboard front panel case. Most older synths use this design also.

The fatar has an open square U shaped cutout at the back of the pivot point of the white keys. Notice on the K2661 it has a stripe of velvet running along the back of the keybed, I assume its there to conceal the cutouts as the keybed may sit farther forward, it also serves to prevent dust I guess.

Both can be observed when depressing the keys.

Another fundamental difference between FS and Fatar keybeds is on FS the unexposed portion of the keys at the rear are substantially longer for better pivot point balancing. The Fatar's pivot points almost right at the back of the keys, therefore not as balanced and would account for why there is more resistance and a stiffer, slower action.

While the Fatar is a cheaper design, it really comes down to your own preference. Construction wise both are well built despite cost differences. The feel difference is distinct. Personally, I tend to pass on synths with a fatar keybed. I have been using a QS7.1 for years and still never really got into its feel to this day, with my Z1 it