How to make my keyboard sound on a PA as good as through my headphones?

Hi guys,

I am sure you all experienced something like this and I hope someone has found a solution.

I own several pro keyboards including Kurweil PC1se. As you know this particular one has some of the best piano sounds on the market so the quality of the sound is not in question. I have noticed the same issue with my Motif Es6.

When I listen to the piano sound (mono grand) through my headphones or through my 2031A Behninger Studio speakers, the sound is really amazing. But, when I play the sound through some average PAs (yorkville) or even my Roland KC-350, the piano sound is very shallow and dull.

My 2031A Behringer are pretty flat so I am not surprised that the sound is very similar to the one heard through the headphones which I like.

Is there something I can do to make the piano sound closer to the one which I hear trough the studio speakers or through the headphones. What should be the best Hi, MId, and Low setting on my mix board to get the piano as accurate as possible.

I have notices if I lower the Mid range on a mixer, the "canned", shallow sound is less evident, but still far from the one I want to achieve. This tells me that the Mid range frequences might have something to do with that awful canned sound.

I though that Roland KC-350 is a decent amp but if it can not reproduce a nice piano sound, I might need something else. Any suggestions?

I am still hoping that a proper setup on a mixboard will solve this issue.

Please advise ...

Thank you,

Dennis

You can try adjusting whatever equalizer you have for the Pa by ear for better sound. But all in all Id say it was largely the Pa speakers themself just arent nearly as able to produce as good a sound as your headphones or powered monitor speakers. A 10-20 band equilazer can help that as would useing heavy gauge qaulity speaker cable to them. Start with replaceing the speaker cable with 14 or better yet 12 gauge. Even if you go and buy a much better sounding PA, it will sound its best also with heavy gauge qaulity speaker cable.

When I listen to the piano sound (mono grand) through my headphones or through my 2031A Behninger Studio speakers, the sound is really amazing. But, when I play the sound through some average PAs (yorkville) or even my Roland KC-350, the piano sound is very shallow and dull.

as w/headphones on but still great.

Thanks guys!

I guess I'll have to replace my Roland KC-350 with something better.

I am looking for something portable to use as a monitor on a stage.

I plug my keys directly to a PA which we rent or is provided by the venue organizers, so I don't need my own PA. I need a keyboard amp beside me to hear myself properly.

I've read some good reviews on Motion Sound KP series. Would that be a decent replacement that would make my piano live again?

Thanks,

Dennis

Thanks guys! I guess I'll have to replace my Roland KC-350 with something better. I am looking for something portable to use as a monitor on a stage. I plug my keys directly to a PA which we rent or is provided by the venue organizers, so I don't need my own PA. I need a keyboard amp beside me to hear myself properly. I've read some good reviews on Motion Sound KP series. Would that be a decent replacement that would make my piano live again? Thanks, Dennis

Motion KP200S is a good stereo amp (I've had one for years), their new KP500SN series is even more powerful.

Traynor's K4 is recommended by some here as well

If you have the room on stage for two small cabinets at your feet like stereo monitors - check out the the QSC K12's ...they're supposed to be the hottest thing out there in terms of powered spkr. cabinets for PA or keyboard monitoring.

The most popular Powered PA Speakers that have been recommended for years have been teh Mackie SRM450's or the JBL EON15 G2's (older ones not the newer). They (a pair) used to set you back about $1500. You can find them used but as with all speaker purchases you probably want to "hear them yourself" before you buy them used. Or find them with a liberal return policy. A good DJ friend of mine let me borrow a pair of Mackies for a couple of years and I loved them. He let me borrow the subs as well but I never used the subs live except a couple of private parties where we used the whole system as our mains. It sounded better than our huge FOH system!

If those (even used) are more than you want to spend, I can highly recommend the Behringer B212a. At $250 street, one will suffice for a stage monitor and two are awesome (to my ears - YMMV). I still use a small stereo mixer to send the signal to those. I first heard about them because DJ's were blown away by how much bass you could get out of a 12" speaker. I tend to agree. They also make a B215a as well for a few $$ more. But the B212a's are light, samll and pack 400W.

Most important take-aways ...

1) Listen to what everyone is saying about the Roland KC-350 amp

2) No matter which way you turn, let your ears be the guide.

Thanks midinut! I'll definitely check those.

Thanks Gigman!. I think you also had KP100s? In your opinion, are they strong enough for stage monitors? I find KP200S a little bit heavy . I play in a 11 piece R&B/Sould band (4 horns, guitar, bass, drums, 3 singer and me on keys).

Similarly, are Traynor K2s good enough for a stage monitors. They are lighter then K4s but I think they are not stereo? How does piano sound through K2s?

Thanks guys!

Dennis

That's a big-ass band, dude (4 horns, guitar, bass, drums, 3 singer and me on keys)... if I were you I'd go w/the mini-PA setup: a pair of the QSC K12 powered spkrs., a small mixer - boom! instant keyboard rig.

The KP100S will definitely be too small & the KP200S probably will be as well.

Thanks GigMan.

My only problem with getting a small PA system is the restriction of space. You could imagine how little footprint I get on my gigs with such a big band. Not to mention that our vocal line are all girls and they like to shake . I am afraid surrounding myself with a small PA setup might be too ambitions. And if I get only one speaker and a mixboard then no stereo effect for me

thanks xmlguy!

You guys are really helpful !

Cheers,

Dennis

Dennis - I agree w/xmlguy: I think that w/the "footprint" of two small pwrd. spkrs. like the QSC K12's, they would just about fit on the floor, under the left & right side of the ends of your keyboard (facing inward to you) as it sticks out over the edges of the stand... ie, your Kurweil PC1se is 76 keys and therefore sticks out a bit on both the left and right sides of your keyboard stand & the spkrs. could probably tuck underneath both sides nicely as floor monitors, firing right up at you & probably giving enough volume for the rest of the band on stage to hear as well.

What about in-ear monitoring?

I tend to prefer ElectroVoice speakers. Very few speakers I've auditioned seem to come close to equally the EVs in the high-end. And a great high-end can really mean the difference between a synth patch sounding muffled or not. I did a harmony central review of my TX1152 speakers. They're not cheap, but everything goes through the P.A. on my gigs, and they sound great.

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/PA+Speakers+and+Monitors/product/Electro-Voice/TX1152+2-Way+15%22+PA+Speaker/10/1

 

Well you also need to be close to the speaker if you want them to sound as good as headphones. Or the sound changes a bit.

Thanks guys! I am considering more and more a small PA system.

Will check in my local those models you guys recommended.

That might be an interesting option too, but I've heard that not too many people like to use them? Apparently you feel "isolated" from the rest of the band? I am not sure, ...never tried them personally.

Could someone share their experience with the in-ear monitors playing live?

Definitely easier to carry around

Any good ones to recommend?

Thanks,

Dennis

Playing keyboards thru amplification - whether a stereo PA, stereo keyboard amp or mono keyboard amp/PA - will NEVER sound as good as playing thru/listening with headphones... unlike guitarists, who need/want their amp to color the sound/tone of their axe - keyboards just sound the best thru an accurate pair of headphones.

Of course, when playing live - most don't have that luxury, to hear it thru the 'phones... so that's where the sound of a better PA or amplifier is important.

Regarding the speaker cable comments, thank, I needed a good laugh this morning. Also, be sure to speak only kind words to your speaker cables.

Mark

Playing keyboards thru amplification - whether a stereo PA, stereo keyboard amp or mono keyboard amp/PA - will NEVER sound as good as playing thru/listening with headphones... unlike guitarists, who need/want their amp to color the sound/tone of their axe - keyboards just sound the best thru an accurate pair of headphones. Of course, when playing live - most don't have that luxury, to hear it thru the 'phones... so that's where the sound of a better PA or amplifier is important.

This pretty much nails it .... You cant compare a live set up to head phones.

with a live band whats important is the FOH mix , how great it sounds on stage isnt the big deal as long as you can hear yourself and how you are sitting in the mix..

Playing keyboards thru amplification - whether a stereo PA, stereo keyboard amp or mono keyboard amp/PA - will NEVER sound as good as playing thru/listening with headphones... unlike guitarists, who need/want their amp to color the sound/tone of their axe - keyboards just sound the best thru an accurate pair of headphones. Of course, when playing live - most don't have that luxury, to hear it thru the 'phones... so that's where the sound of a better PA or amplifier is important.

This pretty much nails it .... You cant compare a live set up to head phones.

with a live band whats importan is the FOH mix , not how great it sounds on stage isnt the big deal as long as you can hear yourself and how you are sitting in the mix.. then apply the caveman reality that if you can hear yourself real good ,, you are no doubt too loud for a good mix with the band

Dennis - I agree w/xmlguy: I think that w/the "footprint" of two small pwrd. spkrs. like the QSC K12's, they would just about fit on the floor, under the left & right side of the ends of your keyboard (facing inward to you) as it sticks out over the edges of the stand... ie, your Kurweil PC1se is 76 keys and therefore sticks out a bit on both the left and right sides of your keyboard stand & the spkrs. could probably tuck underneath both sides nicely as floor monitors, firing right up at you & probably giving enough volume for the rest of the band on stage to hear as well.

Assuming you get a "vocal monitor" in your current configuration - you may be able to same a little space by simply running an AUX send monitor mix from the FOH board into your keyboard mixer and amplifying it through your stereo "Keyboard PA". I got rid of my "vocal monitor" wedge when I moved to a stereo "keyboard PA" setup - which ultimately meant that the difference in footprint between my old "keyboard amp" and "vocal monitor wedge setup and the new "rack and 2 wedges" keyboard PA setup is that much bigger.

But if your keyboard mini-PA is also sending an output to the FOH & the FOH is sending you an input for the vocals to hear thru your own kybd. mini-PA, don't you run into a vicious feedback loop?

...unless what you send to the FOH has that channel muted somehow (the channel w/the incoming vocal feed) and you can only hear it thru your own mini-PA?

But if your keyboard mini-PA is also sending an output to the FOH & the FOH is sending you an input for the vocals to hear thru your own kybd. mini-PA, don't you run into a vicious feedback loop? ...unless what you send to the FOH has that channel muted somehow (the channel w/the incoming vocal feed) and you can only hear it thru your own mini-PA?

I'm using a Yamaha MG12/4FX mixer. Each channel strip has an "On" switch that when engaged - assigns that channel to the L/R "Main" busses. Each channel strip also has a "Group 1-2" button - which when when engaged - assigns that channel the "Group 1-2" busses. The Master Control section has a button that determines whether "Group 1-2" gets send to the "Main" buss as well. If that button is not engaged - "Group 1-2" simply goes to the "Group 1-2" outputs. In my setup - the L/R "Main" outputs get sent to the FOH board and the "Group 1-2" outputs go to my keyboard amplification (QSC 1450 and pair of JBL JXR112M wedges). With the right buttons engaged and/or disengaged - the AUX send that I receive from the FOH board gets amplified in my wedges - but never gets sent back to the FOH.

I've been very happy with Yamaha mixer in my keyboard rig. With 12 channels - I've got enough real estate to run all 3 of my synth engines in stereo. It's a pretty straight forward layout with enough flexibility to route what I need where I need it. In addition to synths and my AUX send received from the FOH board - I connect up an iPod that I use to send "break music" back to the FOH. I also like the headphone controls - which lets me play silently (i.e., warming up before a gig, etc.). It's a sturdy little board - that has served me well so far.