Oasys/workstation users

As I see it, the modern home music studio is primarily about two main aspects: the ability to easily create new complex songs, and the satisfaction of exploring and creating exciting new sounds.

My path has been one of pay-as-you-go, with an open mind towards future potentials in your gear. My current setup includes the following skillsets, and I'm wondering if it would be worth a total change-over to a simpler, more integrated system, like the Oasys or the much-beloved Fantom G8 or Kurzweil or other Big3 workstation. These are what I have, and what I value:

-- multiple synth engines, esp unique ones (VA, FM, PM, wavetables, real drums)

-- massive polyphony and professional FX

-- keyboard expressiveness (88 piano keys, 61 synth keys, polyAT)

-- audio recording/one-shots

-- live synth engine accessibility (like filter and wavetable sweeps)

-- embedded ideas/suggestions (useable arps, drum setups, etc)

-- multiple live performance controllers (bass pedals, exp pedals, ribbons, breath control)

-- realistic acoustic emulations

-- worry-free storage capabilities

-- immediate/ongoing record capabilities

-- able to do any genre

-- computer independent

-- accomodates non-keyboard skills (brass, drums, guitars, vocals, DJ'ing)

I've already invested around ~$3000 towards these goals, but in a piecemeal fashion. I'm fairly satisfied with what I have, realizing I have explored about half of all my possibilities, much less honed my immediate second-nature skills on these possibilities, with what gear I have currently. I have room to grow.

I'm just wondering if any of you more accomplished songwriters/synthesists would recommend I sell all/most of my current gear to get one do-it-all workstation? Or should I continue learning the nuances of all my current under-rated gear potentials and therefore grow into what I already have?

Or can it all be done with one solution with a few accessories? Oasys? Fantom G8? Software? I'd prefer to steer away from software/VST environments, but could be swayed if the cost/efficiency/productivity outweighed the hassles...

Or am I just plain deluded? :arg:

of course it can be done with one, it's motif XS, alternatively korg M3. Forget about oasys, it's dead too expensive and discontinued. Fantom G has too weak sounds on board.

IMO workstations are good for putting ideas together, but I much prefer software for actually putting songs together. The Oasys is great, but if it is your songwriting tool, you will be frustrated with the sequencing (unless you get really good at karma algorithms, which give you some cool live sequencing options). I've used the Kurzweil stuff, which is great, but I wouldn't want to write songs just on it. (Though I'm sure some will disagree.) The Fantom G8 looks like it would be easier, but if I had to simplify my setup as much as possible, I'd go with Logic and a controller keyboard. I'm sure many will come along and disagree, but for me the software is easier and faster.

-D

Forgot to mention these. I had an M3 and used a motif xs enough to get an idea of its capabilities. For me they were great for ideas and starting songs (and my favorite among the romplers), but not as total solutions.

-D

Wow, all that expense on a board only to be left frustrated? Total turn-off there, then. I suppose I should turn my attention then to software. My paid-for Reaper has gone untouched for a long while, as has my included Live. I'm sure Reaper is more than capable, but it seems like a big learning curve just to get everything setup -- latency and MIDI issues, VST organization, track layouts/templates, hardware performance needs, etc. At least with hardware, while you're learning the ropes, you can always just forget the technical stuff and play.

Which of course I can still do. Was just thinking out loud if one of those Big3 workstations I rejected a couple years ago due to price were really a magical one-size-fits-all production workhorse. Guess not. Grass is always greener, and all that...

once again - motif XS can do it all, I have done that and I hate software (as software engineer should).

Yoozer's axiom: The more you try to cram into a single box for the same price, the more likely you are to end up with a laptop.

That removes:

In the sense that all keyboards that include storage simply include older computer storage, that realistic acoustic emulations require big sample libraries and intelligence (i.e. scripting, as found in Kontakt), that massive polyphony is solved in the easiest way by freezing tracks, and that all on-board effects are compromises and - in the case of most workstations - only effective in full force if you only use a single patch.

Computers can be made to not suck, seriously. Divide the tasks into what you can realistically get real instruments for and replace that which falls short at the moment.

There is no real all in one solution that is dedicated, too.

Well, I think carbon111 and/or Mike Conway should chime in here to tell that the expense on OASYS is fairly well worth it, even along with the fact that it's discontinued. You're simply NOT GETTING that many different synthesis engines in ONE BOARD for any kind of money, except in OASYS. Alesis Fusion is close, but it is an entirely different story, and it has been discontinued for entirely different reasons than OASYS.

Really, the money is well justified, and it's a top workstation of today.

Motif XS certainly CAN'T do all the different synthesis types OASYS is capable of, discontinued or not. It's not a do-it-all board.

Workstation- NO!

Separate pieces are MUCH better, more flexible.

If you have a problem with the workstation- your whole studio is down.

You state you are fairly satisfied, what FIRST comes to mind that would make you more satisfied?

Is there anything in your set-up that interrupts your creative work flow?

Well, to be honest, and maybe this is the part I really need to face, it's lack of discipline, not so much blocked creative work flow. I've finally got it where I can go to any instrument in the rig, and I often end up making massive MIDI layers to either go over the same musical pieces I've been playing over the past couple years, or else jamming away with no backing tracks, only to later switch to a different distraction when the well runs dry on that instrument.

What instead I want to do is lay down rhythm tracks to get some structure going, or to be able to immediately record some new chord progressions or musical parts, and then structure around it later. Problem is, when I do tear myself away from the creative high, the technical discipline to then start arranging and tediously recording part after part is such a let down from the high, that I end up distracted again onto another instrument and on some massive creative frenzy free-for-all, and never end up recording anything.

It's super fun and all, just not much to show for it afterwards...

I have a Zoom H2 whose purpose was to hit record and capture any ideas at the moment. A dozen abandoned ideas there collecting dust. I've plugged into Reaper and captured ideas as freeform audio tracks. A dozen more half-sketched ideas unopened in months. I understand my hardware sequencer just fine, and hit record, but often abandon the work to go and play again.

I'm thinking somewhere being able to create a decent rhythm track or being able to record in the heat of the moment, with the least amount of technical resistance, would make me more productive, and therefore was thinking that one of the other workstations might have something along this flow. It may be more personal discipline that's needed, and not something that yet another piece of hardware/software is going to solve...

FWIW, the Oasys has been a real boon for me, it has easily replaced a handful of synths completely but the main thing is that it's a great way to get song ideas down quickly. The fact that the synth engines in it are so diverse and of such high quality make it easy to not have to use a lot of other gear.

However, recent music of mine is only about 70% Oasys. The remaining 30% is other synths - I don't see this ratio changing much in the future as there is no substitute for things like the Juno 60, Prophet 600, Microwave XT, Absynth, etc for certain specific kinds of sounds.

My workflow has become more streamlined and my productivity has gone up tenfold since I started using the Oasys.

I think a deluxe "workstation" paired with a few "boutique" synths and/or modules, a decent pair of monitors and a nice computer-based DAW makes for a really flexible songwriting/recording setup. It can be ergonomic as well, if planned out carefully.

Dude, I feel your lack of discipline.

Part of it might be this: too many synths! Every time you feel a slight bit of boredom on one, you turn to the next, instead of digging deeper into what you have. I'm guilty of this sin.

What if you had like, two synths, and a recording device/computer?

Say, don't you have a Fusion? Doesn't that cover the multiple synth engine-thing?

Well, to be honest, and maybe this is the part I really need to face, it's lack of discipline, not so much blocked creative work flow. I've finally got it where I can go to any instrument in the rig, and I often end up making massive MIDI layers to either go over the same musical pieces I've been playing over the past couple years, or else jamming away with no backing tracks, only to later switch to a different distraction when the well runs dry on that instrument. What instead I want to do is lay down rhythm tracks to get some structure going, or to be able to immediately record some new chord progressions or musical parts, and then structure around it later. Problem is, when I do tear myself away from the creative high, the technical discipline to then start arranging and tediously recording part after part is such a let down from the high, that I end up distracted again onto another instrument and on some massive creative frenzy free-for-all, and never end up recording anything. It's super fun and all, just not much to show for it afterwards... I have a Zoom H2 whose purpose was to hit record and capture any ideas at the moment. A dozen abandoned ideas there collecting dust. I've plugged into Reaper and captured ideas as freeform audio tracks. A dozen more half-sketched ideas unopened in months. I understand my hardware sequencer just fine, and hit record, but often abandon the work to go and play again. I'm thinking somewhere being able to create a decent rhythm track or being able to record in the heat of the moment, with the least amount of technical resistance, would make me more productive, and therefore was thinking that one of the other workstations might have something along this flow. It may be more personal discipline that's needed, and not something that yet another piece of hardware/software is going to solve...

Back when cars had fins & dinosaurs roamed the earth, I bought a new Ensoniq MR-76 for similar reasons.

It did not fix my lack of disclipine, unfortunately.

I still face very similar issues. Good post, IMO.

Knowing what you have, psionic, I'd say you might want to continue to grow into what you have and upgrade specific areas starting with the sequencing (where you could either add a DAW or an Akai MPC/Roland MV machine, or perhaps even an EMU Command Station which is what I've been looking into) and then perhaps adding a mono analog sound. Then continue upgrading as you feel the need to, while making use of what you have in the meantime, which is always going to give you a better feedback of what you need, than a bunch of specs in a sheet of paper (or computer screen).

A while back I had a quick exchange with Mik300z who was posting in his video comments that he wanted to exchange all his synths for software, and I basically told him he'd be crazy to do that because of the way he interacts with his equipment (even though a lot of it isn't all that well regarded, and it is all quite cheap). I told him what I told you, to just upgrade instead of revolutionize. He then pretty much agreed.

So: remember it's not enough to have all the features you want - you need to be inspired by them. (whoa, I could sell that phrase to some manufacturer couldn't I? I better

Yeah, new gear aint gonna help that problem.

I set deadlines. If I didnt, I wouldnt get anything done. I pick a date and I have to have the song/arrangement/project done by then. Some of that is done for me lately, I am doing a lot of arrangements for concerts and they obviously have a finite date to complete. For my personal stuff, I say "I gotta have a new track by next Monday". Doesn't always work, but if I stick to it I get results.

Well, it would seem by your response is basically you are happy with your gear, and its not impeding your creative process.

One of things needed to being a composer is you ability to make choices. Obviously you have discovered that ideas can take on my new paths- thats the beauty of writing! But you must commit yourself to see one of your projects thru to the end, thats the only way you will learn the ENTIRE process.

The most creative I EVER was was when I got my first sequencer, a Roland MV-30. FOr the first time, I could really layer ideas/tracks and get a full arrangement for a song down in NO TIME flat- this was in the late 90's when the MV-30 was already past it's prime, but it was an amazing tool- I was standing up using it on a keyboard stand, and I wasnt hunched over a computer monitor at a desk all night- A workstation would be a very similar experience IMO, at least from the composition standpoint. Maybe you could split the difference? Buy an "inexpensive" workstation like a KORG M50 to be your sketchpad and capture all of that compositional energy, then feed your external hand selected modules with MIDI from the KORG or save the file as a MIDI file and tweak it in Reaper driving your external modules and soft synths, etc... ?

For not much more than some MIDI controllers, you can grab an M50.

I appreciate all the replies, and the variety of advice. At the moment, I don't suffer too much from GAS. With all the gear I have, which really isn't too much (3 different types of keyboard for playing, plenty of synth engines), I don't think purchasing another keyboard is going to help the issue. Besides, without a major re-design of the ergonomics, I couldn't fit one in, unless I sold one of them, like maybe my extra Fusion6. An Oasys would be nice, but I think it might not solve my problem but make it worse. I don't do organ-type material, so I've already got all its multiple personalities covered.

I may actually be nearing a threshold, hopefully, where productivity will start. It was only recently that I got a Midisport 8x8, which I'm using only for its THRU mode, so that everything talks to everything, finally. I've ironed out the MIDI loops, and so now have the freedom to assign any synth or controller to any other engine on any channel. Just have to finish assigning the drum pads to the correct MIDI notes, and decide on some kind of standard as far as channels go (Fusion8 keys split into 3 channels, EX5r always on channel 5/6, Micron on 2, drums on 10, etc). And this same month I've finally got all the audio wired, so that even my dusted off AirFX now gets a voice and a role.

So yeah, I'm inspired, and fresh stuff still pours out freely, along with the old, unfinished standbys from over the years. And when those run out, there's still the old agendas of several cover songs I'm wanting to do, like several Rush synth-era songs. Choices, sometimes too many.

So the answer may indeed be deadlines. I'll take a look at the Roland MV, but I think I just need to get in the habit of keeping Reaper open with a couple soft-synths, and have *record* ready on several devices. If I manage to at least start saving the MIDI, I can always re-assign voices later.

Deadlines and discipline. And drums. I know the path, just have to walk it, is all...

I think I'll start with one project, and see it to its end, no matter how painful.

Well, I think carbon111 and/or Mike Conway should chime in here to tell that the expense on OASYS is fairly well worth it, even along with the fact that it's discontinued. You're simply NOT GETTING that many different synthesis engines in ONE BOARD for any kind of money, except in OASYS. Alesis Fusion is close, but it is an entirely different story, and it has been discontinued for entirely different reasons than OASYS. Really, the money is well justified, and it's a top workstation of today. Motif XS certainly CAN'T do all the different synthesis types OASYS is capable of, discontinued or not. It's not a do-it-all board.

I'm not bashing the OASYS, I own one and love it as a sound synthesis device. I'm just saying that I wouldn't want to be using it alone to write songs, for both sequencing and recording. I can do that, but used in conjunction with a computer DAW it is a much easier and more flexible setup for writing music.

-D

The more I read this stuff, the more I start thinking that it's got way more to do with age than with gear.

Be hungry and muster the passion and urge to get your ideas out in the world.

Works way better than whatever other strategy.

I see OASYS keyboards on Ebay with "Buy it Now" prices starting at $2,800, $3,495, etc. I can't speak for the validity of those particular auctions, but the "price arguement" is much less of an issue.

I'm not going to tell you to buy anything that you don't research yourself. As some have said, the sequencer may be an issue for your style. I get along just fine with it and who doesn't have a sequencing program nearby, nowadays?

Sometimes I forget that there is the CX-3 Organ Modeller on there, because the other engines are fantastic and broad enough to keep you busy for years. This is where that big screen really comes in handy. I did have someone comment on the quality of my post-2005 (when I got the unit) recordings and I attribute a lot of that to the clarity of the 32 bit effects.

Like Carbon, I use the OASYS for most of what I need, but also like to throw the Virus into the mix. It is easier to focus with one or two units, but that's not going to stop me from hooking all the synths up to Sonar and playing with 64 tracks (with the MIDI Sport 4 X 4).

Now, I have packed up the OASYS and brought it on the road (usually Vegas to Sedona).

Since I am comfortable with the sequencer/HDR, I'm not missing anything. It's very potent. I like being able to load up a bunch of samples or songs and not worry about something that I need from the computer.

Don't let me give you the impression that it's easily portable, though! It's heavy. If you want portable, get the Openlabs D-Beat or a miKO. I think this is also one sexy beast, even if it is more computer oriented:

My first recorder was a Tascam 144 Portastudio (4-tracks on cassette) back in 1982-83. I learned it inside and out. What it did at the time forced me to look at writing in a linear fashion (ie. Intro, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Bridge, Chorus, Outro) and composing everything from start to finish before you laid the first track down. Nowadays, I suffer (and it sounds as though you do too) from "loopitis" where we are experimenting around and come up with a groove, a motif, a hook and record it into our [insert workstation/DAW here] for posperity knowing we can tweak it later. If you are like me, what you end up with is five years worth of [Cubase] files that are 8/16/32 bar snippets. I keep telling myself that "one day I'll sit down and string some of them together into a song". It never happens... for probably the same reasons as you.

Funny how technology sometimes gets in the way isn't it?

Yeah, that's the rub, ain't it? Song-writing mode comes in spurts... I have several acoustic guitar songs complete start to finish. I know several cover songs start to finish. But it's not so much a shortage of enough ideas for a song or 50, it's just the wherewithal to lay down the tracks, part by part, and getting a polished product.

I'm actually not much of a infinite loop musician. Perhaps it's a case of not satisfied with too little to say? Meaning, it should theoretically be a snap to take a quick phrase and string them together into a mediocre electronica "song", right? Less may be more, in this case, for the long run. I need to "let go, Luke"...