Mid-priced preamps/DI's

Hi guys,

I am looking at some mid-priced preamps/DIs for recording and general purpose voice, guitar, piano, processing via vocoder on synths like my Q and my Supernova II and by modular synth modules, and other fun stuff. I could just use a send from my Carvin mixer, which is serviceable but frankly a little on the "meh" side. Does anyone here use a mid-priced preamp like the UA 710 Twin-finity or Solo 610 or something like the Grace Design m101? These are all in the $550 to $800 range. I guess that the UA stuff is thought to be pretty good but I am wondering how much is hype and how much is real.

UA is a nice pre but if you push it it will distort but not in a particularly nice way. I preferred the sound of my Avalon U5 by a long shot.

The U5 is a DI box, not really a mic pre. I guess you could use it as such, but with only +30dB of gain it won't work for every situation/mic. The M5 is a true preamp, but it costs 3 times as much.

Everyone says the Grace is the best budget pre for "clean and uncolored".

The Summit Audio 2BA-221 is another "clean" sounding pre to add to your list of things to consider.

The UA stuff will be a little more "colored".

Some of what you will read about mic pres is hype, but the truth is they can make a huge difference. But the person who will get the most advantage out of those differences will be the engineer in a commercial studio who needs to record a different singer every other week, because having different options available will help you match each singer's voice.

Honestly though, my first suggestion would be that you use that $700 - $800 to upgrade your mixer. The pres in the Mackie Onyx series are pretty darn good for the price you pay. The 1220i is $699. The 1620i is $999.

FMR RNP

The UA 610 is fabulous! It's a very flattering pre.

It's become my go-to for vocals - especially when paired with my franken-mic (Oktava MK-012A body with a RTT M1 "LOMO" head). :love:

If you want transparent, there's a lot of cheaper (~ $300) solid state stuff out there that works fine...at least IMO.

Thanks for the info guys. The main reason why I have not upgraded the mixer is that it does not get much use. I already upgraded - sort of - at least for keys - to a Rane SM82S stereo line mixer. When I stopped using the Carvin and started using that the cleanliness of my sends and returns from my FireworX was audible immediately. I have thought about a small Onyx mixer as a mid-priced upgrade and also as an interface but have read complaints about the drivers. I figured I would get more of what I want by getting a decent preamp and upgrade my Firepod sometime to something like an RME Fireface.

Hi all, I am bumping this thread as I was going through some old magazines trying to decide what to keep and toss and found a review of the Focusright ISA One in a back issue of EM. The review is available online now here. The reviewer gave the preamp a stellar review (one of those flaming "hot buy" review results), and did a good job giving reasons why he thought the preamp/DI deserves the rating and really gives you a lot for your money. This seems to be more a "wire with gain" type of preamp than the UA amps, but there are impedance switches for different mics which the review author (IMHO at least) "abused" in order to change the sound of his test mics. The unit really does have a lot of features which I had not really considered but which could turn out to be incredibly useful for farting around with a single synth with a vocoder, for example a headphone preamp on board. Focusrite also makes an A/D converter card for it and is advertising a version of the preamp with the A/D converter built in to be available soon.

I had received the impression from off-hand comments here and elsewhere that Focusrite has "gone downhill" but have no way to quantify that other than hearsay. Anyone have any comments concerning this preamp to add?

Incidentally the same reviewer gave the Univeral Audio Solo/610 a 4/5 here.

Cheers!

I don't have any experience with the ISA but I've got a TrakMaster Pro with the Platinum A/D card. I'm glad I bought it. The conversion is impressive. Definitely sounds on par with the Fireface 400 I'm using. The channel strip features are basic and the controls are simple. If you've paired the right microphone for your specific source it's almost a challenge to make it sound bad.

The great river stuff is really good as well.

MP-500NV, is one of my favorites. It has a nice preamp and the DI goes through the input transformer which is fairly uncommon but very much a excellent thing.

For MicPre's I've been digging a pair of 5003D's I got last year, which are a steal for the ruffly $600 they equate to plus shipping.

I also do a ton of DIY and a mic pre is about the simplest thing you can do, especially in 500 series. It's fairly easy to get a API style preamp for $325 and a few hours of work.

For DI's I use the Evil twin from Eclare Engineering and the 4 channel Behringer with the built in isolation transformers. It is a decent B word product.

What card are you using to take the digital from the platinum A/D card into your computer?

Edit - guessing just the S/PDIF on the Fireface?

Yes.

The OP asked for a preamp/di, thats what the U5 is methinks..

Youre right on the gain for vox though, but it works and sounds great. The preamp on the U5 is stellar. clean, heavy yet punchy with wide freq response.

Anyway, the other choices you mention are great too

depends on what "mid-priced" is..

in and arround of one grand, i've experienced over n over again there is nothing that beats a Great River ME-1NV. so have my collegues and clients.. we even did a few A/B tests with some (not cheap) focusrite gear like ISA110 and RED series, and it just blew them away. headroom and wide bandwith in spades, but not at all clinical and boring. its a modern take on "neve-ish" sound. i do like tube designs to, but ultimately always find more applications day to day with higher end solid state.

if you need some extra inputs for synths/guitars/bass only, then U5 is a nice recommendation for clean/full sound. it is not a D.I. only, but an "insturment preamp" i.e. instrument goes in -> +4dB signal to your converter comes out. it does also have a classic mic level output to hook to another mic pre, if you want to use it strictly as a D.I.

also, for stereo, in sound similar to GR variety, with colour, coming from iron transformers on output, there's NICE DI by Phoenix. it is also a +4 ouput device like U5.

if you like vintage-y tube sound, TAB Funkenwerk V78. also arround a grand. works with mic, but for direct input you need to add a DI box in front. it is far beyond 610.

cheaper than this, usual suspects Sebatron, Sytek, RNP..

Haha, I never did quantify "mid-priced" other than list a few pre-amps in $800 range. I am not sure that I do anything that justifies spending the money on or would even be able to judge (due to lack of experience and raw talent and ear sensitivity) the subtleties between some of the pre-amps you guys have listed. The Great River preamp sells for 1150 at Sweetwater, which is over the $800 I was thinking about for price.

The Great River is tough to beat but something you might check into is a Daking Mic Pre One that is more in line with your budget: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MicPreOne/

Link from Sweetwater but you could probably shop around and find a better deal. If you're handy with a soldering iron you might look into the Seventh Circle Audio kits: http://www.seventhcircleaudio.com/ (flavors of Neve, API, Hardy)

Or... save a bit and keep your eyes peeled for a used Summit TPA-200b (or 200a) which is a tube pre that comes in under most people's radar. I personally didn't care for the Grace, Avalon, or Focusrite stuff but that's just me.

Audio kits... look interesting. I have built much more complicated things than those kits in the past. From the forums there it looks like the units are not without problems, though - many mechanical in nature.

More bumps - it turns out that the "Great River" in "Great River Electronics" means the Mississippi, the company is located in Inver Grove Heights about 10 miles from my house, and they have a local dealer called Allied Productions and Sales that is a production and audio contracting place that has a relatively new sales department with no storefront. I just spoke with one of their sales dudes on the phone and he claims to be able to beat any online price - but he is at some show in Vegas right now (aren't cell phones funny?) - so we shall see once he returns from Vegas early next week and sends me a quote. I might just end up with this one and support a couple of small local companies in the process.

These are really easy to build. I've built 2 A 12's, and an N72 with the only issue being one buggy opamp which was easily exchanged. These things are really cool for the money and sound fantastic.

If you can land a Great River at a good price don't pass it up. Not only is it a great and versatile preamp, the build quality is exceptional. I spent several weeks with one on loan and if I had not already had so many preamps, it would have been a definite purchase for me. But that's just my opinion...

Did you use the power supply and cabinet that this company sells to go with its kits or build your own? There were a significant number of issues reported on the forums for the company, mostly having to do with mechanical issues with pots coming loose and boards not sliding into the cabinet without filing and/or sanding the cabinet or board. I might also try this sort of thing sometime. I am as well-practiced at soldering as I was 20 years ago. I did a lot in my EE student days for projects but these days I do very little. A couple of my buddies at work are electronic design EE's (I am optics and math) and they even think that soldering surface mount components under a microscope is easy since they do it so often; if you go into their lab they will very likely be wearing one of those double-magnifier hats where the lenses swing up and down away from your eyes.

Here is a Great River MP-2 kit. This is a hardcore DIY project since you have to find a PS and chassis. Five Fish Studios is another cool DIY company.

http://diypartssupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=10

http://fivefishstudios.com/

GODDY

I'm not sure if you can get those PCB's anymore which makes the kit useless. Send Brian a message and ask him if he has any pcb's left before buying the kit. The kit is a nice set and Dan from GR gave that design to the DIY group over at prodigy pro. It's a fairly expensive build actually with the transformers.

Check out

http://www.classicapi.com/catalog/

Specifically the VP25, VP26, VP312 Kits.

The VP25 are about $300 a channel to complete and you need a API Lunchbox will set you back about $425 for a 6 space unit. You can go different routes on the PSU/enclosures but the lunchbox is the lowest common denominator.

http://www.mercenary.com/api5006b.html

I know that is still $1k for a stereo pair, but overall it's very good stuff! It also allows for you to add 4 more devices.

The kit for GR MP-2 states the pcb is included. I just emailed them regarding this since I am thinking about building some. I actually have a GR MP-2 factory faceplate that was used as a music store display. Just add a chassis and ps and I will be good to go.

Classic API products look to be really good but, API pres have a strong midrange and would not be the best choice for a main pre. I have some 512s and love them on guitars and drums (great for tracking MPCS) but, find them not the best for synths.

Here is a couple clean sounding DIY kit options.

Two Seventh Circle Audio C84 pres with ps and chassis will cost $618

http://www.seventhcircleaudio.com/

Two Five Fish Studios SC-1 pres w/ ps and chassis will cost $519

http://fivefishstudios.com/

I didn't catch the MP2 pcb was included. I know they had to rework the matched transistor layout because of having a hard time getting the original part and I'm unsure of what they came up with. If you ask Dan he may have the rest of your case.

Look at the thread over at prodigy for information and trouble shooting tips.

I have Dans recommended Cinimag Iron for mine, I just need to finish up the case but It sounds very very good.

In regards to the API, those preamps can be colored any flavor you like with changes to iron and opamp choices.

Another option is the Eisen Audio DIY500mk2

http://www.eisenaudio.com/products/diy500mkii/

I have 4 of the original DIY500's completed, 2 running a single 990 and 2 running 2250's with different circuit and transformer configurations. End result is they don't sound nothing alike. The same thing can be done with the Classic API stuff. They also don't have the same sound as my 312 Circuit pre's.

I don't typicly go for the complete kit stuff, but again that is my choice from where those kits are, it's only a few steps and then it's custom just for you.

just like to add, for those who perhaps aren't familiar with Great River products, the discontuinued MP series, now avail as DIY, was a rather clean sounding pre, not to be confused with ME-NV series, that can introduce colour/xmfr saturation, if i/o levels are set that way. so they have different applications.

as for DIY api500 format, i intend to pickup a few old 2520s on bay, and buy parts from classicapi.com, including their re-makes of original transformers, to build a 2ch api312.