Classical music question - Stabat Mater (Pergolesi version)

Is the original in F min or E min?

On youtube, most of the videos seem in F minor:

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But others like this one seem in E minor:

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I'd like to learn this beautiful piece, all parts, and I'd like to learn it in the key the composer originally intended it to be. My plan is to make an electronic version.

That is beautiful. According to this, it's Fm.

No idea about the key sig but good luck with it... i've got part of Karl Jenkins Requiem i'm learning atm as i didn;t think sequencing would do it justice and it's certainly a lot more work than the average track, but very satisfying when it feels like it's moving forward.

We need more 'switched on' action around here

standard tuning has been getting higher for the past few centuries (as players seek to 'brighten' their tone, mostly)

In 1736 A (currently 440 hz) would have been closer to 415 hz

So... the piece may have been written in F minor but F minor was lower then.

Thank you Doug.... interesting.... soooooooo..... you mean, after all I would not be "cheating" too much if I learned this in E min ?

I'm surprised that we haven't seen a wave of guitarists who seek to lower "concert pitch" on their tuners, to sound more "metal".

(Of course you can only take that so far... 415Hz is pretty darn close to our current A flat, isn't it?)

Woah! Definitely F minor then! I guess it doesn't get much more accurate than the Library of the Royal Conservatory of Naples from 1934!

Thank you, Cygnus Have your ever performed this in your career?

Woah! Definitely F minor then! I guess it doesn't get much more accurate than the Library of the Royal Conservatory of Naples from 1934! Thank you, Cygnus Have your ever performed this in your career?

I don't think so. I remember doing something similar in college but I'm not sure it was Pergolesi, it may have been Monteverdi or Pallestrina. I've done very little from this era.

Cygnus, quick question for you since you're the Strings guru - I'm sure if you take a quick look you can tell in a second!

the partiture from the conservatory of Naples is great from the historical standpoint, but at least for me, it's a bit hard to read. I'd rather use the link that Plink Floyd provided.

Since this is the first non-piano project I tackle.... can you shed some light as to what is what in Plink Floyd's link? There are five staves in it, and it doesn't say what they are... so I'm guessing from the videos they could be....

1. G key: contralto vox ?

2. G key: soprano vox ?

3. G key: violin ?

4. G key: another violin? or viola ?

5. F key: cello? or contrabass??

1 and 2 are vocals.

4 and 5 are a piano reduction of the strings. Top line firsts, below them seconds, in between clefs are violas (a bit on each clef), bottom celli and bass.

Line 3 is probably an ossia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossia

Great, thank you!

I was wondering what that Line 3 was for, since it doesn't have much in it.... it makes sense that it could be an ossia

Good good. Thank you all

Your rendition is due by Monday, mister, or you get no class credit.

You mean Monday November 7, 2011, correct?

Pergolesi was a strange cat. Some music geeks contend that he is imaginary and never existed. A lot of works attributed to him were written by other composers. Even this one seems strange, I would guess it would be something from the late 1600s instead of 1730s. He was either very backward-looking or the Alan Smithee of his time.

Why not try a completely different key to perhaps bring a different slant on the work? You'd have to voice a few lines slightly differently to maintain vocal comfort but all substantial works can stand a little fiddling. I've played various classical piano works in different keys to force myself to truly know the harmonic scheme and ended up liking certain works in an altered key.

The first page of the manuscript seems to show three flats though (Cm)... Unless you're referring to some later part of the score. I couldn't read farther than page three though before I got a headache. Too bad they didn't have computers and the Finale software back then.

To make things even more fun, the transcription for violin shows two flats (Gm) in the opening.

The first page of the manuscript seems to show three flats though (Cm)... Unless you're referring to some later part of the score. I couldn't read farther than page three though before I got a headache. Too bad they didn't have computers and the Finale software back then. To make things even more fun, the transcription for violin shows two flats (Gm) in the opening.

I noticed that too and under the F minor section of wikipedia found that "In the Baroque period, music in F minor was usually written with a three-flat key signature, and some modern editions of that repertoire retain that convention."

I'm not an expert, so have no idea if that's why though. It's a question for our resident guru Cygnus64.

Wow ! :freak: This is truly weird indeed !

That must have been linked with some strange superstition back then, like the devil liked number four or something (as well as the tritone interval).

Interesting though... Talk about making unnecessary complications back then, by letting the musician guess if a score with three flats is in Cm of Fm.

Not to mention having to decipher the lovely writing of the composer.

maybe it's actually in dorian mode?

So, Paolo; finished yet? Let's hear it!

Interesting though... Talk about making unnecessary complications back then, by letting the musician guess if a score with three flats is in Cm of Fm.

Very few pieces were in keys with more than 2-3 sharps/flats. Since the music was string-based, stringed instruments have "open" strings, and the keys that use open strings are much easier. Open are A D G E, so only G would be an open string in Fmin, making it a tough key to play in. As late as Mozart and Beethoven, you don't see a lot of Db or other keys with lots of accidentals. The Beethoven Symphonies are in C, D, Eb, Bb, Cmin, F, A, F, Dmin. Easy Keys for Strings. Later in the Romantic period, composers wrote in any key, but Baroque hovered around the 1-2 accidental keys for the most part.

Interesting though... Talk about making unnecessary complications back then, by letting the musician guess if a score with three flats is in Cm of Fm.

Music notation was relatively new back then. Heck, the five line staff wasn't even all that common until the 1500s.

Maybe the devil had something to do with it, of course. There was a time when polyphony was considered evil by the church, after all....

fify.

So, Paolo; finished yet? Let's hear it!

I got the cello/contrabass (and basso continuo organ, it's mostly the same) part down! It took me good part of Sunday to "decipher" it, as my reading skills are poor since I never practice reading. The "bass line" is the one that has most notes of all parts, so in theory the other parts should be easier to learn.

This is definitely proving to be a challenge for me, but it's good since it leads to improve playing ability and knowledge of "orchestration" (I'm truly a n00b in that field).

Big news: I have found a better music sheet for this composition, which has all the parts divided by each instrument - much easier to read than the other "piano rendition"

http://icking-music-archive.org/scores/pergolesi/SM/01.Stabat-Mater-dolorosa.pdf

Tonight I start deciphering the violins, wish me luck!