GigMan About to SCALE DOWN from GIANT S90ES - News at 11...

Finally pulling the plug: found a local music store that will give me trade in value on my 3.5 yr. old S90ES plus hardshell case (not Guitar Wanker...), probably during the coming week.

Looking at the following options, which have all been discussed previously... hoping to discuss again, here (briefly):

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Option 1

Get a MoX8 & learn to live w/the 64 notes of polyphony and lack of sliders. Has the Yamaha Motif sound set I've come to really dig. Has nice Transpose/Split buttons. Has 88 keys. Is light.

Option 2

Get a Motif XF7. Not quite 88 keys but still room to stretch. Not super light or slim but still a good bit lighter than the S90ES. Has 8 great sliders and 128 note poly. Ability to download & use FREE Yamaha S700 acoustic piano sample from S90ES that I've come to know and love is a plus.

Option 3

Get a Motif XF6 and REALLY scale down. Learn to live w/less keys - for the sake of less "bulk" and easier/quicker loadin/out. Getting older, but getting better (in terms of gig ability), hoping to continue to ramp up the no. of gigs, but "scale down" the rigs. Ability to download & use FREE Yamaha S700 acoustic piano sample from S90ES that I've come to know and love still a plus.

Option 4

Get a Casio Privia PX3 and a Motif XS Rack. 88 keys, lightweight - PLUS the great sounds of the Motif. Added benefit is that the PX3 could be used as a VERY lightweight standalone dig. piano for certain solo/duo or trio gigs with limited soundset needed.

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Final thoughts, comments - always appreciated from my friends & interested parties here on KSS... thx.

Option 4 looks like a winner in my eyes if you are okay with some features not included in the rack MOTIF. It was the one I picked even though my needs are different than yours.

I use an option-4 style rig as well except with a Roland XV rack. I put that into an SKB case with everything pre-wired so I just take off the back and hook stuff up. Also gives you a backup option should something crap out.

Option 5

Get a Casio Privia PX3 and a Motif XF6.

You get all the benefits of Option 4, plus the YAMAHA S700 samples you like, plus the benefit of having weighted and unweighted actions at your disposal when desired, and backup. At any given gig, you'd have the option of bringing just the XF6 (your option 3), just the PX3 (an option within your option 4), or have the best of everything when you bring both.

I would have put an XF7 above my Casio if it weren't so darn heavy.

Based on earlier discussions, this is my vote too.

Personally, I would go with option 1. Probably because I've never had an issue with polyphony on my MoX 6 and I prefer unweighted keys.

...yes, I remember The Pro suggesting this - and I see AnotherScott lobbies for this scenario too.

But I still use my Korg Triton Le as my "top-tier" kbyd., on gigs where I bring two 'boards, so this suggested configuration of Motif XF6 over Casio Privia PX3 wouldn't work for me at this time because the Motif XF6 would have to replace the TLE on the top tier & I'm not ready to do that yet.

I still like the sounds in the TLE as does my band leader so it's not slated for replacement unless it really starts flaking out again - - at which time I'd probably chk. out the Korg M3 as a replacement.

Ghostpaw - do you gig w/a Casio PX3 and a Yamaha Motif XS Rack?

...yes, I remember The Pro suggesting this - and I see AnotherScott lobbies for this scenario too. But I still use my Korg Triton Le as my "top-tier" kbyd., on gigs where I bring two 'boards, so this suggested configuration of Motif XF6 over Casio Privia PX3 wouldn't work for me at this time because the Motif XF6 would have to replace the TLE on the top tier & I'm not ready to do that yet. I still like the sounds in the TLE as does my band leader so it's not slated for replacement unless it really starts flaking out again - - at which time I'd probably chk. out the Korg M3 as a replacement.

You might be able to sample your favorite TLE sounds into the Motif XF. Another possibility is picking up a used TR Rack which I think gives you the TLE sounds.

But apart from that, the viability of options 2 and 3 will rest largely on your comfort playing piano on the XF's non-weighted keys, and the shorter keybed, and only you can make that determination. If you're okay with that, those are viable options. If you're not, I would probably pick the MOX8 over the PX3/Rack-XS combo because it's an easier "just toss-it-up and play" scenario, and more importantly, the front panel interface of the MOX is quite nice, much better than what you'd get controlling the rack from the Privia, in terms of patch selection buttons, easier and more extensive ability to split and layer the Yamaha sounds, better ability to make various tweaks to the sounds, an informative display, more real-time controls (the 8 knobs, mod wheel, expression pedal input). The only real advantage of the PX3/Rack combo is that the MOX8 is kinda deep, which might put your second tier TLE a little further away on the second tier than you'd like. You could get the keyboards a lot closer if the bottom were a PX3 rather than a MOX. So that's the main trade-off as I see it.

"Deep"? - - I've been using an S90ES for almost 3.5 years... that beast is definitely "deep" - the "deepness" of the MoX8 would not bother me, since the added BULK would not be there.

- - I see by the specs on www.yamahasynth.com that the S90ES is 15.25 in. deep and the MoX8 is 16 in. deep - - only 3/4 of an inch more, no biggie.

As far as sampling the Korg Triton LE into a newly-purchased Motif XF7 (or XF6, if I wind up w/one)... that's an interesting idea but I don't think I'd bother - - rather just move on when the TLE finally gives up. And I should probably have its replacement lined up and waiting in meantime - maybe a Korg M3, as I like Korg's electronica sounds as a nice complement to Yamaha's great acoustic tones... or maybe even go full hog for a Kronos 61... or maybe go to the Kurzweil PCK6 or PC361 - do they still make that? Can't seem to find it for sale online... but replacing the Triton Le comes after I get thru the "which Motif should I buy?" question 1st, of course... - - meanwhile, I want to keep trucking along w/the TLE as long as possible.

Anyway, I think that I am kind of drilling down - in my head - to either getting a Motif XF7 or a MoX8. I know that if I got the smaller Motif XF6 with only 61 keys I'd feel limited by having only 61 keys.

Having 88 keys is certainly a blast, I've done it for a few yrs. on the S90ES and I also have a Roland RD300GX, which is 88 keys, 36 lbs. - - but prior to having both of those I had an Ensoniq KS32 for about 12, 13 years? - - which had 76 weighted keys, which was a nice compromise between the small 61 key jobbers and the very big 88 key machines.

My Roland RD300GX actually has a nice display and could probably used to control a Motif Rack XS or even a Motif X6 but I find that the sounds it has internally do not "cut" thru the way that Yamaha's sounds do - - which is why I use the Roland for smaller gig situations where there's less volume to cut thru or if I need to do left-hand bass it splits & layers on the fly very easily.

One HUGE drawback I see to the MoX8 is the stupid wall-wart pwr. supply - - or is it "lump in the line" style ? Either way, I hate those, they suck - - I'd pay an extra $150 or whatever, added onto the kybd. cost - just to get an internal pwr. supply w/standard IEC cable - for gigging, it is SO much roadworthy... I've gone thru two pwr. supplies for the Korg Triton Le, maybe on my 3rd at this point? Can't remember - the thing is 10 yrs. old...

OTOH, the PX3 is only 11.25 deep. But if you're used to the depth, as you say, you might not see much benefit there.

And actually, to me, the issue isn't strictly the depth of the board, but how much you can overlap the front of the top board over the back of the bottom one and still have access to the bottom board's needed controls and display. (And small amounts of difference can matter in some cases.)

For $150, you can buy 5 spare power supplies, so that should last you 20 years. ;-) Seriously, take an extra $30 and buy an extra wall-wart up front and keep it in the MOX's carrying bag/case. Problem solved.

The big thing about external power supplies isn't just that they create a cost savings... they are part of what allows these boards to be smaller and lighter. Once you put a power supply inside the case, the entire case typically has to get bigger and heavier. Besides having to hold the power supply itself, there are issues of shielding and maintaining sufficient distance from other components (to prevent hums/buzzes), and heat dissipation. So it's not just cost, it's also likely size/bulk.

People complain that their boards with internal power supplies are too heavy, they complain that their light boards use wall warts. The only ones that seem to hit the magic point in between are Nord, but they are pricey (and even they use a non-standard cord). You can't have everything...

Edit: I've also noticed that it seems that any board with a plastic case uses an external power supply, and of course, plastic is part of what makes those boards lighter as well. I wonder if it's coincidental and simply a matter of the two design decisions working well toward the same goal of reduced weight, or whether there is some other complication to putting a power supply inside a device with a plastic rather than metal enclosure. If nothing else, I suppose, it may make it harder to insure it passes FCC testing for not creating interference in other devices.

...yes, I remember The Pro suggesting this - and I see AnotherScott lobbies for this scenario too. But I still use my Korg Triton Le as my "top-tier" kbyd., on gigs where I bring two 'boards, so this suggested configuration of Motif XF6 over Casio Privia PX3 wouldn't work for me at this time because the Motif XF6 would have to replace the TLE on the top tier & I'm not ready to do that yet. I still like the sounds in the TLE as does my band leader so it's not slated for replacement unless it really starts flaking out again - - at which time I'd probably chk. out the Korg M3 as a replacement.

:arg:

I didn't want an iPad. Really - I got no use for the thing except one: as a replacement for my Music Pad Pro for displaying sheet music and playing my backing MP3's on stage. The MPP still works but it's refused to boot a couple of times and it just feels like it's about to let me down and I have no backup. The New iPad with the ForScore app is the only practical way to go, and after exhausting all other options (other tablets etc) I bought my iPad last week. I STILL don't like it but it's much more versatile and reliable than my MPP, so I just took my medicine and stepped into the future-which-is-now.

You know what I'm getting at.

go for XF6 + Casio CDP100 or Yamaha P60/70. if u lack of cash, get the XF first. damn fine looking keyboard

Why not go for the Nord Stage 2 compact ( or 76 weighted keys) sample and import your favourite motifsounds!

One note on Options 2 & 3: Be sure to actually PLAY the Motif XF6 or XF7 before you buy one. The keys are a bit narrower than most -- as I recall, it's like 1/4 inch narrower per octave than similar keybeds from Roland and Korg. Doesn't sound like much, but it's noticeable when you're playing.

Sampling another synth into the Nord can work in some cases, but it's somewhat limited, because you can only sample one velocity layer. That often works well for synth sounds, but tends to be problematic for acoustic sounds, which are often considered Yamaha's strengths. For example, I like the Yamaha flute a lot, because you can get the "overblown" sound with high velocity. You can't duplicate that on a Nord.

Not that we have any reason to believe that gigman has any desire for what the Nord offers over his other options anyway! Its biggest advantages over the Yamahas are the clonewheel organ and the knobby VA synth. Maybe acoustic piano, but that's more personal taste. Most other stuff is done better in the Yamahas. The Nord is also more expensive than any of his listed options. (Especially the 76, and I think the compact is pretty unplayable for piano.)

Nords are great, but sometimes they are not the answer, outside of Sweden. ;-)

Ask Tucktronix about the M0X8, he loves it and gigs all the time.

No and yes. I've used my Motif rack live with a different keyboard. I was saying I chose the rack because of the footprint and the price left room for other purchases.

The Stage is just too darn expensive for my blood.

Sampling a bunch of Motif sounds (which I don't even have, unless I buy a Motif!) into an extremely expensive Nord is NOT a project I'm looking to take on...

And the main thing the Stage has over the Motif sound set is the organs - - I'm fine w/the Yamaha organs - I know the real organ guys will shudder to read that... ha ha - - but I don't need true authentic B3-ness or anything, just something decent.

On the subject of organ sounds: I will say I'm very impressed by the organs in the Kurzweil PC3 series - they really sound nice to my ears.

Outkaster -

I did send a PM to Tuck a while back and he finally answered, said he indeed loves his MoX8. I'm leaning toward the MoX8 at this point - for the 88 keys, light weight, TRANSPOSE button, which I won't need very often - not that I don't have to Transpose often but rather that MOST of the time I CAN do it in my head - - but it's a godsend to that that TRANSPOSE button staring you in the face when you really do need it & just can't wrap your brain around the "Tranpsosed" key you're asked to play in, as has been disussed ad naseum in other threads...

Lack of faders is a bummer on the MoX8 but not a life-changing situation, I'm sure I can figure out how to work the knobs instead.

If I wind up w/the MoX8, I'd have to live w/a piano sound that is NOT the S700 sample of the S90ES but if it's still very good, I can adjust.

Plus the MoX8 is much lower cost than a Motif X7 - and so I may be able to ALSO replace the Korg Triton Le at same time, probably w/a Korg M3 - - as The Pro mentioned, it really IS time to let go (of my 10 yr. old Triton Le) and move forward.

My wife would not be happy about a MAJOR purchase now (MoX8) and then another one in a short time (M3) - but she does know I'm scaling down from the S90ES, so if I do it ALL at once, it's done. Like a BandAid - rip it off all at one time, RIGHT OFF!

I don't blame you! Although you could get some subset of Motif-ish sounds to sample out of your S90ES, I guess. But yeah, that's pretty academic, based on everything else.

As you know, I agree that the MOX8 is probably your best option.

One nice thing about an M3 as a TLE replacement (since you also talked about single-board scenarios) is you could take just the "brain" of it and still have access to all its sounds in a smaller, lighter 1-board setup (the MOX8 would be a good MIDI controller for it, apart from not having aftertouch). I think that "detachability" may be the thing I like best about the M3 as opposed to the cheaper/lighter M50 or the more capable Kronos.

I think it's good that you are really thinking this through and taking advice. A lot of people will be interested in what you wind up doing.

And yes, you can adapt to anything. I bought my Hammond SK2 to add to my Kawai digital piano, but the 35-lb SK2 is so convenient that I now play it by itself. If you'd have told me a year ago that I would use the unweighted 61-note lower manual of an organ for my stage piano I would have said "no way", but I have found ways to make it work really well.

This is a picture of me on my SK2 from last night...

Thx Jim - yah, I guess it's just a case of "change" - - it's hard.

If I wind up buying TWO new keyboards - wow, really hard. I think my head would explode.

But it really just might be the best thing to do - I'd hate to be on a nice, high profile wedding gig and have my Triton Le crap out in the middle of a ballad or something... that would be "Unforgettable" indeed.

- - a while back, the oscillators started going out of tune - of course on string patches, on the very noticeable quiet parts of ballads, like Unforgettable or At Last. I guess the professional side of me realizes I just need to take measures ahead of time to NOT let it die on me completely in middle of a job - since I know it is going, it would NOT be a surprise... - - and the only measures I have are: