need tips on writing good lyrics please

hey, i dont really post very often on the songwriting section of these forums but i need help writing lyrics for my band's songs. Do any of you have tips on grabbing the audiences attention with lyrics? ive been listening to (and am listening right now to) linkin park, and their lyrics catch my attnention and i can relate to them. How should i go about writing lyrics? Every time i do the songs are all the same basicly, and they are very boring lyrically.

thanks,

Ryan

read some poetry, try to find "inspiration" from books. or check out some movie titles, i already wrote a few songs based on movie titles. eg i have a song called "the hand of time" inspired by kubricks "space odyssey". movie titles are often catchy phrases

Try not to use the obvious rhyme. That's a biggie.

For instance,

"along came a stranger..."

For God's sake, don't rhyme 'stranger" with "danger",

unless you have no alternative.

Don't rhyme cry, crying, cried with die, dying, died.

"Love" is a tough one.

Not many words rhyme with it.

But choose the one that's not obvious.

Personally I don't think there are any real problems with rhymes that have been done to death as long as the phrase itself is something relatively original- but usually all the phrases that "make sense" with the over used rhyme are pretty lame, it's hard to be "original" sometimes...

OK- my advice is to go to your local library and get a couple books on songwriting- DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT get turned off by the fact that they are discussing songs from genres that are the complete oposite of what you like in STYLE. The underlying mechanics usually follow THE SAME CONVENTIONS. it took me a long to time to get over that as well and it is the hardest thing to get someone to understand about songwriting- that the craft itself exists seperately from the STYLE AND PHRASES.

The biggest things that will come out of those books are learning to create a cohesive narative or how to develop verses and choruses that change and offer different aspects of what you are trying to say instead of just repeating the same things over and over- no matter what your style, those conventions don't change and are considered "good songwriting" I gaurantee that if we sat down with Linkin Park's lyrics we would find that they follow these same conventions most of the time.

Another thing to remember is not to cop out and write a bunch of stuff down just because you can't think of anything and then say "It means whatever you want it to mean..."

Although I understand that and it can be fun to do- you are going to get more satisfaction in the long run if you concentrate on making a freakin' point and exploring the ways in which you can make that point in your lyrics. In other words- IT TAKES SOME EFFORT TO WRITE AND THEN RE-WRITE.

Good Luck-

B

After you have finished a lyric, asked yourself if there are any memorable lines that would lend themselves to quotation easily or you think would be worthy of being included in a book of quotations. Lines that simplify, elegantly concretize or concisely sum up your subject or issue. If you can't find a single one, throw the lyric into the ash can. If you get used to demanding this kind of quality from yourself, your lyric writing will improve.

You mentioned that you're looking to grab the audiences attention. Here's an instance where you can have the greatest lyrics/music in the world and still "suck" on stage, and then, your lyrics mean nothing. There are countless bands/groups who have an awesome stage presence, but are lacking in the lyrical department, and they are more exciting to witness than the band who's boring and tell a story. Know what I mean?

I hate to say stuff like this, but, at least for the style I play (screamo, hardcore) and the places my band plays, melodies are for stage and recordings. Lyrics are for recordings only. Additionally, guitar/bass riffs are about rhythm and not nearly so much about notes/progression.

I've been very carefully listening to band similar to us live lately and trying to hear how MY band sounds live and I keep coming back to the idea that it's mostly rhythm and melody, not lyrics and phrasing.

I wouldn't get TOO worked up about lyrics, although it IS very satisfying when you know you've written something pretty good.

just my $.02

I have always felt that lyrics are the most important part of a song. If a band has weak lyrics, I tend to lose interest quickly, no matter how good they are as musicians. Unfortunatley, I'm pretty sure that I am in the minority in this way of thinking. When I'm writing a song, I simply try to make every word have a point. I often try to word things so they can be taken in more than one way. I know what the intended meaning is, but it's interesting for me to see what others get from it. Of course I write songs for myself and not really for a specific audience. If I had delusions of writing the next big hit, I may start from a different place. Basically, I just make sure that I don't have any throw away lines in my songs. If I'm happy with every line, and have said what I wanted to say, the song is finished.

I try to keep a notebook on hand. If something sounds interesting I jot it down. The next thing I do is try to hammer things out, even if it isn't going well, later you might be suprised what you've made, and furthermore, doing this is working the muscle, it gets easier the more you do it.

Fido sets a tough standard.

After you have finished a lyric, asked yourself if there are any memorable lines that would lend themselves to quotation easily or you think would be worthy of being included in a book of quotations. Lines that simplify, elegantly concretize or concisely sum up your subject or issue. If you can't find a single one, throw the lyric into the ash can. If you get used to demanding this kind of quality from yourself, your lyric writing will improve.

__________________

It's a high standard. But it may be unrealistic. But wow! When you reach that plateau. I'm sure it's a real achievement.

But even great lyricists can't do it every time.

I learn with every set of lyrics I write.

I learned with my most recent set of lyrics, that when you write a bridge, it should lift the song to a new level from the verses.

I was writing verse & bridges to this song with the same basic theme. Then I was walking on a street in Seattle last week, and it hit me.

"The bridge sucks!"

So using Fido's method, I scrapped it. And I resolved that the bridge lyrics would lift the song to a new level, as would the finale'.

Read what I came up with below.

Now I just need to find a good singer.

Here it is:

These lyrics don't hit Fido's standard.

But I'm not scrapping them.

They're pretty good, actually.

A Bossa Valentine (Music by Tomoko Block & Marc Ellis

Lyrics by Marc Ellis

marcellis,

Just for the record, the OP wanted to know "Do any of you have tips on grabbing the audiences attention with lyrics [italics mine]? " So in his particular case I advised a more stringent filtering and word crafting process than I maybe would have otherwise advised.

Don't suck.

Fido:

Just for the record, the OP wanted to know "Do any of you have tips on grabbing the audiences attention with lyrics [italics mine]?

____________________

I think music should grab the attention - not the lyrics.

But that is just my POV.

Legendary conversation between collaborators Johnny Mercer (lyricist) and Harold Arlen musical composer.

Topic: Which was more important, music or lyrics.

Arlen told Mercer, "You can't hum a lyric."

I agree.

My biggest thing about lyrics (my own or covers I do) is that as the singer, I have the "sell" it to the audience. I cant do that very well if I don't have some emotional connection to the lyric. Asice from that, try this hint from my rhetoric class: use the fewest words possible, and be be direct.

IMHO writing lyrics is the hardest, hardest part of songwriting. The 2nd hardest part is finding a verse and chorus that fit w/ each other and not just the lyrics.

Some people just have the ability and even if u don't just write something and in time, yes, maybe even years, u'll start to get somewhere. But in general the chorus needs to be quite good since that will be sung over and over again but the verse can just be garbage. Just write what's on your mind and refine that, make it catchy, and make it rhyme.

Great post.

Why? I think it's okay for both to share the spotlight.

Isn't it funny how every composer [who can't write lyrics] will tell you lyrics aren't as important as music but, when you can get well written lyrics, who would turn them down?

Lyrics? First off write about something you know or believe in. Second, be descriptive. Metaphors help. Next, don't rhyme for the sake of rhyming. Say what needs to be said and say it with meaning. Good lyrics are great but a real singer can make even "not so good" lyrics interesting to listen to. Finally, don't write in verse. If you do, you'll tend to search for stupid rhymes. Write it out like a story and start and stop where the music or melody dictates.

If all else fails, roll up a fatty and let your inhibitions flow from your mind to the pencil and paper.