College is approaching...

But actually a ways off still. I'm going into my senoir year this August and you know what that means - college applications! Well, I was wondering if any of you knew of any good ones for my studies. I want to major in music composition. That's really all I can say about my goals. I want to write music for videogames, but God knows that will never happen. Nonetheless, I still want to go into music composition. I've only got two schools in mind right now - San Francisco Conservatory of Music and Berklee College of Music, and there's no damn way that I'm getting into either of those.

Do any of you folk have any ideas of schools to look into? Thanks.

Edit: I actually didn't know what forum to put this thread in, but seeing as how I want to go into composition, I thought that the songwriting forum might be best - especially because the chat forum is just threads about sex toys and vaginas.

what does music composition mean to you?

is what we do in here music composition? in other words, do you think that a music composition degree entails popular song craft?

what instruments do you play?

do you want jazz at all?

where are you located?

how much money are you willing to invest in your education?

do you have any formal training on your instrument?

theory experience?

what is it that you want to get out of the university?

why wouldn't you get into SanFran Con. or Berklee?

does it have to be a bachelor's degree program, or would music institute be a good [aka - 'parentally accepted'] choice? i'd stick with a real college degree, if i were you - it only makes things easier when you're working toward your goal of becoming a video-game score writer. contrary to what I thought in college/h.s., the goal doesn't come to fruition right after i get a degree (especially something of an artistic nature like this). . . there's still quite a few dues to be paid on the way there and the bachelor's degree helps you get a good enough job right out of school to support your 'quest', if you will {censored}, i'm around 30 years old and i'm still on mine!

i'm only posting all of these questions because i work with high school kids on a music studies track to be continued in college. i also went to a pretty kick-ass university for music (after having been accepted in Berklee and being painfully disenchanted with it), but i don't know if it would be a good choice for you. i'm mostly familiar with schools in the northeast (being from NJ/NY originally), but there are some great choices around there.

try and answer some of those questions and i might be able to help out a bit

First of all, you've got to stop telling yourself your dreams will never happen.

Why can't you compose music for video games? Hundreds of games are published each year (thousands even?) and all of them have music and people who compose it. If you want to do it, you will.

Why not go to Berklee, are your grades not good enough? Work harder. If this is what you want to do, you've just got to do it. Anything it takes. Maybe you should study composition at a smaller more accesable school before moving on to Berklee or something more prestigious.

I'll tell you something: not everyone who wants to be successful in music becomes so, but I bet that of all the people who are, not a one of them said "I can't" all the time.

You've got to believe in yourself and work hard for your dream. You are the only one who can do it.

God knows I won't make YOU famous, I'm trying to make myself famous!

I'm not really getting what you mean by the first question. To e, composition is completely writing and arranging original music, and if I need to, recording it.

I think that composition should include various styles, and include learning things like popular song craft, but it should not be anywhere near centered around this.

I play guitar well and piano fair. I'm really working on piano, so I think that by the time I audition for any schools, I should be well enough that my playing won't hurt me.

Like I said, composition should include various styles, including jazz, but I don't want to go into in-depth jazz study classes. I'm more of a classical guy.

My location shouldn't really matter because for a good education, I'll move anywhere. If you need it for other reasons, though, I switch off between Colorado and SoCal.

Money isn't my main concern. I'll pay for whatever I need for a good education, whether it's a high-end school, or just a very specific specialty school.

I have no formal training at all, but if an application requires it, I taught guitar for a while at a small studio, and could convince my old boss to write a letter saying that I took lessons that whole time instead of teaching. I hope something like this won't stand in the way of a good education because I consider myself a good player, but I'm all self-taught.

I've taken two years of theory so far, and next year, I'm taking a year-long independent study on high-level theory and songwriting from some texts that colleges use. I do pretty well theory wise.

Like I've pointed to, all I really want out of a college is a good composition education. Sports, frats, housing, etc. don't make much difference to me and won't change my choice of college. I also want a degree from a good school that people will look at and maybe start me up on higher projects than they use other wise (like my uncle, who got a degree at a great law school - he admits that lawyers from lesser known school are probably just as good, but just because he has a degree from a good school, he got started in a much higher and responsible position).

The reason why I'm doubtful of getting into either of the schools I mentioned is because I hear that those are highly selective schools and I admit that there are many people better at this than I am, and because of this, the schools are just out of my league.

Yes - I would only consider going for a bachelors degree - no certificate or associates'. Maybe later on, I could go back for a masters, but for now, I need a bachelors and nothing less.

Hope this is what information you were looking for.

confuseitall:

I realize that I do have a chance at living my dream, and even though I'm doubtful about myself getting into the buisiness, I'm not going to work any less determined than I would otherwise. I've just learned that if you lower your expectations, you never get let down. Maybe a cynical view, but that's just the color lenses I see through.

It's not due to my grades, especially since music schools don't sonsider them as much an issue as a traditional university would, and I'm doing alright. I've got about a 3.3 and I scored a 34 on the ACT. I'm just worried about the audition.

Your post will be put to mind, though.

IBBIAZ,

Check out Taxi.com. They've placed hundreds of home recorded songs for video games and music libraries. At least look at the listings.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=481684

first off, the composition question. composition from a music university standpoint (unless specifically labeled as commercial comp or songwriting) is usually taught by a guy with a doctorate in 20th century atonal and has very little to no application in the modern song market. (this is not law, but very often the case.) some composition programs take you through a period base in arrangement, form, orchestration, etc from classical, romantic, baroque, etc. and focus on standards, but again, not very applicable to today's commerical song market. the fact that you said you lean toward classical is something that would put you in line with these composition program styles. (yes, jazz would be a bit different)

you seem like you want a songwriting thing which, in a lot of ways, lends itself to a more jazz approach in the simplicity of melody/harmonization organizations, but still probably out of the range of what you're looking for.

as far as schools for straight songwriting comp, there are a bunch out in the east, Berklee being the biggest (and not necessarily the best), five towns college, and all of the SUNYs....among others. in fact, when i went to SUNY (in white plains area), i was so impressed with the way they taught and the facility they had for the kids to record and expand.

if you don't have formal music training and can't reference a few method books you've worked out of, i'm thinking getting into school like Berklee or SanFranCon might be difficult. (the buzz going around is that Berklee just recently stopped letting every kid with 40 thousand dollars in their doors, from what i hear) they want more references and experience going in now.

that being said, here's my .02. i happen to think that songwriting isn't something that is well 'taught', but simply better practiced by the individual. the professor is - even when he states otherwise - the authority on what is valid versus what isn't when it comes to songs, and that's not the best environment, IMHO for a songwriter. it just produces clones. (ahhhhh...the famous knock against Berklee).

however, a good, solid music education is a great foundation for the practice. (it's totally subjective, though....what's right for one guy is not always...you know.) for me, if i could do it all over again, i would probably do the same thing i did, which was get a music degree soaked in theory and performance from a strong straight ahead jazz school and continually write songs separate from the institution altogether. my practice came as a byproduct of my education, but i never had a professor 'review' my songs. (songwriting songs....not the jazz compositions i did) frankly, i didn't want a professor to even hear them.

so, if you wanted, maybe a better idea for you would be to focus on classical in an ed or performance program and do an institute study with songwriting focus after you get the BA. the real benefit of this would be a clear knowledge of what you want and need to do when you start in on the 'songwriting' track per se. you might get a lot out of it.

okay, i think i have to comment on this: you don't need either a high-end school OR a very specialized school. it's art. you need the practice more than anything. being exposed to the other kids who are serious about it in one of those said schools would be great for you, but ultimately, it's what you make it. with steady practice and passion, you're not going to be a better songwriter from having gone to a big name rather than a little one, OR a super-specialized music prog rather than a more general one. in fact, one might argue that going to a super specialized school will draw you into sounding like the others you went with.

i don't know. i don't know you, so i couldn't tell you. the main point of my litany here is that a lot of kids i see think that they can make huge mistakes here in picking a school. that's really not the case. you will make whatever you want out of wherever you go, and if it really isn't the best choice for you to be there, you get out with a much clearer idea of what it is you want.

another VERY IMPORTANT factor for a young songwriter is that some schools may be better at exposing you to bigger and better things purely by location and i would put more emphasis on that than whether or not a music program has a huge name. (ex. if have the choice between a school out in south bumble{censored} with a good music program or some no-name university smack dab in the middle of nashville with a mediocre program, you'd might be pretty wise to choose nashville and get your education from being in a music business town with hundreds and hundreds of musicians living off their craft around you - you'd just benefit more that way.) boston and sanfran are great artistic and musical centers, but they're not the 'big three': NY, LA, Nashville TN. if you're truly free to go wherever the heck you want, it would be very wise for you to focus on those three areas. (nashville right now being the most welcoming - and no, it's not all country music!)

well, write back for any help if you want it. no matter what, if you're into what you're doing, college is going to be invaluable for you.

berklee

So Berklee it is? Any other suggestions?

lol. do what you want.

Well, as a high school student myself looking at music school as an option for college, I've been facing the same decision you are now. However, I've been looking at more the performance aspect of a music degree. If guitar is your forte, then perhaps you should consider going to a school for guitar rather than for songwriting in general - this being because songwriting, as someone in here mentioned, is not really something that is "taught".

The question I want to know before I start rambling is 'are you interested in a guitar degree or not?'

Although guitar is my best instrument, I would not like to do something career-wise with it as much as I would composition.

lol. do what you want.

Well, yeah, but I'm looking for other schools as different options to look into. That's why I was asking - to know what to look into. I meant that post as more of a way of provoking resposes of different schools that may interest me.

Songwriting basics can be taught. And then you should forget everything you just learned and write from the heart. When it comes to what you seem to want to do it's LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. LA, NYC, or Nashville. LA is probably closer to the market for video games and the like, but check where the companies that do the games are located. Nashville may not be ALL country, but it's pretty close. The pop market isn't here like LA or NYC (I'm at college in Nashville).

Read something about John Mayer. He dropped out of Berklee I believe and I think he's doing just fine. Many of the most talented songwriters are music school drop outs.

Look into co-writing. A good music oriented program should allow you many opportunities. John Mayer (just an example I've heard) co-wrote a few of his first big hits with a friend from his school when they were in the dorms. That friend is now a pretty big producer/songwriter.

It's all what you make of it. Work you're butt off to get into college and then when you're in college, focus on what you're there for. Write, play music, learn and make as many contacts as you can to get your music heard. Find people doing what you want to do and talk to them. If you can write with them and learn from them, that's probably you're best way in.

Good Luck!

Andrew

Since you're looking at songwriting and composition mostly, I really don't have any advice that hasn't already been said. Gl though man.

The University of North Texas is one of the best music schools in the country. Your grades don't have to be stellar to get in, but you have to know your stuff to get into the college of music.

i am about to be a senior too and i am looking at berklee or university of south alabama i think i'll go with USa though. . .

berklee school of music is really easy to get into, but very difficult to stay in. look into it if you havent already.