how do you combine: 1. genuine emotional immediacy and 2. crafty song structure

I always find it sort of funny people talk about sincere songs, immediate songs, etc etc

When we all know that songs, generally speaking, take time to construct and craft.

I was wondering if you guys have thoughts on this. How do you keep "soul" in your song, if you've been tweaking it 10000 times and recording bits of it 1000 times and thinking about it over-and-over?

Or is the trick to keep at it, and slowly your songwriting will evolve until you do the "songcraft" part automatically, and let your emotions take the forefront of your conscious mind?

honestly, I think emotional impact need have nothing to do with sincerity or "immediacy" in the sense you're using it. Just as one needn't be possessed by raw emotion to play an "emotionally charged" piece of music well...I think it's possible, and even preferable to construct music without becoming all emotionally tied up in the song's subject matter or meaning. I think that music often becomes sentimental and uninteresting when it's written "straight from the heart".

all this of course simply reflects my own aesthetic preferences. But keep in mind, there are many kinds of feelings that songs can evoke...not all of them need to be familiar.

SaltyDogg, let your experience take over, another word to use here; intuition. I disagree with trash more. Emotion IS where the power of a song comes from, regardless of subject matter the lyrics deal with, or the style of music accompanying the words. Your guitar is a car, the song is a road you get to create as you "drive". Where do you feel like going today? Grab the musical wheel, and enjoy,..................

I think you've pinpointed the difference between great songwriters and aspiring songwriters. That's where the art of songwriting lies.

I'm not sure where you think we disagree. I'm not sure I disagree with anything you say. Unless you're saying you need to be in the grips of a particular emotion to effectively convey it. If this is your claim, then I don't think this is a matter of opinion...I think it's demonstrably false. People can write focussed songs over an extended period of time, during which--presumably--moods, emotions and perspectives can change.

A good example of this fact--and a little known piece of trivia--can be clearly seen by considering Eric Clapton's song "Tears in Heaven". Most people don't know that he wrote this song before his son was even born as a formal songwriting exercise he found in a book. Before the death of his son, he referred to the song--which moved many of his friends to tears--as the easiest thing he ever wrote. All it took was 10 minutes, a cup of coffee, a toasted bagel and his notebook computer.

I'm not even sure this is something you can learn. You are either genuine or not. I think maybe the fact that "emotion" is something you can't learn is why it's genuine.

I think that the emotion behind or inspiration for a song can be spontaneous and immediate and all that business. But, the finishing and winnowing process is where craft and braininess comes in.

For instance, one day a few years ago I was feeling nostalgic and thinking about this girl I knew in highschool. I balled all of that emotion up and wrote a song about her and about an imaginary new wave song that I imagined I'd like to listen to to get the girl off my mind or to wallow in self-pity or something.

It's one of the first good songs I ever wrote. It's about someone and something real and emotional, but there's an element of craftiness as well.