2 scratch demos for you...

2 demos - these are NOT finished pieces, and I know the vox in "Echoes" need to be redone. Hesitated posting them, but I've seen all sorts of levels of finish here, so I'm gonna roll the dice...

C+C appreciated.

Echoes

Lyrics

Name Above

(This has lyrics as well, but not posted since they're not recorded.)

C+C appreciated.

Thanks!

Hey, Michael

I listened to "Echos"... it has an inviting pop electronica feel, a little acoustic guitar over pulsing synth bass, quickly surrounded by multiple layers of synths.

The lyrics are spare. (I had to look up Adonai. Its use perhaps leads to the question of why it was used, particularly since you also use the word, God. But I'm thinking this may have less to do with its use in traditional forms of Judaism and more to do with some new tack in modern Christianity [since I'm pretty sure you're a Christian, based on previous threads]. Anyway, it goes to show that word choice -- particular in such an instance, is always heavily loaded.)

Lots of capital letters... don't see people jumping to hit the caps key much these days. If this was poetry, I'd have to wonder if you had something else in mind (or if you'd been studying German lately ) but, anyhow, the nonstandard use of them in such abundance would be seen as provocative in English class. [Mind you, whatever they say in that godless English class, I'm prepared to gracefully accept the use of arguable constructions like capitaling pronouns that relate to God. And I understand that Grace can be a proper noun as many religious folks use it, as well. But a few other capitalizations seem like odd choices.]

Lyric content-wise, there's not much being said here but it's all pretty coherent and focused.

One thing, and I strongly suspect it's a reference I don't quite get (perhaps referring to the scriptural story of the creation of the universe?) but the line "I am Your son, in whom You are well pleased" seems to suggest an unhumble self-satisfaction. I'm sure I'm misinterpreting or missing the reference, but I'm not the least sophisticated bumpkin in the hay wagon...

"Name Above" is in a similar pop eletronica style. It's gets pretty busy in spots but I note that you drop things down, too, and that, I think, helps cut down on fatigue and make the big parts seem that much bigger. Looking forward to hearing it with words.

Thanks for the feedback!

Yeah, when you're dealing with a lyric that generally is a simple adoration of God, there are generally lots of caps. Suffice to say, any proper noun referencing Jesus personally gets capitalized. I got a lot of gruff in literature for that as well, lol! There isn't a lot else going on lyrically, but I plan to re-write the verses as something more "on task"; specific examples of the echoes the song is relating. As for the "son" part; many Christians have horrible self images, and I believe it is an important message today that we have been adopted into His family through Christ, and that He loves us and is pleased with us. That's not to say we're perfect, or don;t need to try to better follow His example; it is simply in contrast to the lies many of us believe about how rotten we are. Adonai is simply the Hebrew word translated into English as "Lord". "Abba" means "Father", and there are several others. They have come into more frequent use in certain circles.

"Pop Electronica"...Cool...I wondered what genre people would consider my stuff. For these two in particular, I suppose it fits. I didn't know if "Name" would be considered Pop or not.

Thanks!

Is it wrong to bump these threads fishing for more commentary?

Sure you can bump (that's all some people ever do ).

Echoes in the Spirit - I really like the acoustic guitar/electronica combination. Sounds like a less tortured Depeche Mode. The arrangement is extremely well thought out for a scratch track. I'm not going to comment on the lyrics because, well, I'm definitely not your target audience as far as that goes. I will say that the words are well sung and the vocal effects are well placed. Excellent track - I don't know what you would improve on in a non-scratch version.

Name Above - I think I like the understated electronica groove of Echoes better than the all-out electronica of Name. This version of Name is also missing a focal point in the arrangement which will probably be addressed in the vocal version, so it's a little hard to judge. As it is Name comes off as a little samey - it doesn't build up or break down, and there isn't anything to really focus on as it moves along. Still, I'm interested to see what you do with it.

[EDIT]

I just read Blue2Blue's comment on Name and he seems to be saying the exact opposite of what I said. what's the story about the blind man and the elephant?

Wow, THANKS! That's some high praise for someone who wore-out their tape copy of "Violator" in the '80s.

I just move rooms and am setting up a whole new project studio. Once I'm settled in and everything's working agian, "Name" will be one of the first pieces I re-do, and I'll post a more finished scratch as soon as it's ready.

Thanks again!

I really liked Echoes...the music has a really nice feel and the gentle vocal works well. The lyrics are not my kind of thing but having said that there isn't much of a progression presented in them, eg. it's really only one idea spread out over the course of the song.

The vocals are an important dimension to Echoes so their absence seems to render Name Above less satisfactory - but it's a great start and I'm sure you'll work out some good vocals for it.

I just read Blue2Blue's comment on Name and he seems to be saying the exact opposite of what I said. what's the story about the blind man and the elephant?

Ram

Well... I was about to say about what you said about the potential sameyness of "Name" -- but just as I started to write it, there was a bit of a breakdown/change-up so I sort of addressed that.

________

Michael

I certainly understand what you're getting at with "well pleased" but I'm wondering if there's not a way to say it that... well... says it. However, if you're preaching to the choir (as it were) and your audience will understand that construction, maybe it's not an issue.

That said, I guess I tend to expect folks to not get complicated or sophisticated ideas.

And, to contextualize my comments, I probably ought to say that -- while I listen to a lot of religious music (most but not by any means all Christian -- I had meant to point out in that other thread that many, maybe most other religions actually do have various forms of sacramental and/or relgiously oritented music), and I'm often genuinely moved by it -- most songs of straight praise go right by me.

I find myself drawn to songs about struggle and salvation, about the hard job of following Jesus' example in a world where selfishness, greed and self-involvement are expected and accepted -- even among the supposedly devout.

But with many praise songs, I can't shake the feeling that the object of the song is flattering God and I'm reminded of Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar.

Interesting points...Regarding praise music (GREAT reference, BTW!) we are commanded to praise God, though I don't believe it's because He needs it...He "owns the cattle on a thousand hills"...There is nothing we can offer Him that He doesn't already have. BUT, we are given free will, and are asked to offer Him our lives, and the praises of our mouths. This isn't for His benefit, it's for ours. It's like prayer. God covets our prayers and to spend time with us, in fact, it's there very reason why we were created. But, when we praise Him, it positively impacts us, and this confession of praise and adoration does things in our own spirits, and in the spiritual realms, that goes way beyond the perception of a God demanding attention. Likely a subject best discussed in a less open setting, but there you go nonetheless.

Hey i kinda like echoes. I was more a duran duran fan than depeche mode, so this isnt a style i'm familiar with. I'll certainly compliment the fact that it kept me happy to listen on so the length was perfect. The song as a whole sounded right and finished to me. If i could make one suggestion, what if you where to use some higher male vox maybe in harmony or solo towards the last quarter of the song as bit of a finaly or amybe to build up to higher level of passion.

Good tune though love the guitar it sounds so fresh as the other sounds come in

Thanks!

I guess it could be noted the entire song was made with a Triton, including the acoustic guitar parts. Much love for the Korg.

I'll repost it when I redo the vox as well.

Thanks!

Just bumping this so I can find it this weekend...I'm working on both of these songs, plus "Sing Praise" from the other thread, this weekend, and wanted to be able to find the original threads instead of making new ones...

"Echoes" will likely just receive fresh vocals, particularly in the chorus..."Name Above" and "Sing Praise" are being re-cut from scratch.

"Stay tuned" for new cuts...

Michael, I'm evaluating the writing aspect of "Echoes." I'll forget the production for now, as well as the vocal performance since you preempted that by saying you think they need to be recorded.

-The arrangement of synth, light electronic drums, acoustic guitar and vocals shows some good pop sensibilities, assuming that is what you were going for

-The changes work and drive a mood, for sure. Based on what seem to be your arrangement values - somewhat minimalist and song-oriented - I would like to hear something from you that is definitely more up-beat at least in changes, something "hookier," as these changes have a definitively moody Depeche Mode feel to them (which is appropriate because the song knows who it is)

-Sounds like pretty confident writing, committed to what it is doing...you're not fishtailing from one style to another...to me, that shows promise because it demonstrates respect for the craft of popular songwriting...you're not navel-gazing, you're crafting a song

-Most importantly (to me), you've crafted something around things that listeners enjoy..mood, enunciated vocals, slick arrangement...you're not trying to reinvent the wheel here and I personally am impressed by it when people can do good things "inside the box" instead of breaking the rules before they've even learned them (i.e., skipping popular conventions and moving right into avant-guarde)...it's a good song, a keeper.

I will go listen to your other song to see what it's like for comparison, but that's my immediate feedback on this one.